[X2Go-User] stale dated gnupg key

[Stefan Baur]

Sigh, this is wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to start.

To everyone that has replied in this thread, even with encouraging and
positive replies towards the administration, please stop.  Your
emotional support is appreciated, but let's cut down the chatter, please.

Am 12.06.2018 um 04:11 schrieb o1bigtenor:
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Stefan Baur <X2Go-ML-1 at baur-itcs.de> wrote:
>> Am 11.06.2018 um 23:04 schrieb o1bigtenor:
>> [pretty much the same message sent to X2Go-User two times earlier today,
>> now a third time, and also as cross-post to X2Go-Dev]
>>
>> Please, do not post the same message more than once (even with slightly
>> different subject/wording), DO NOT CrOSS-POST, and especially, NEVER
>> CROSS-POST WITHOUT SETTING A REPLY-TO to *one* of the lists or your
>> personal E-Mail Address.
> 
> Am I allowed to yell my response to you?

No.  For the very simple reason that now you don't get to say anything
on this list any more until you prove you can behave yourself.

Congratulations, out of a three-digit subscriber number, you are one of
two individuals that have the "moderated" flag set to their accounts.

Since you decided to continue your petty bickering even after I have
told you to behave, and others have told you to chill, you're leaving me
with no other choice than to take such drastic action.

Note that this will turn into a permanent ban if you attempt to harass
me or anyone else on this list regarding this decision or their comments
in this thread.


> Your final comment would be more applicable if there were direction that this
> was a requirement someplace besides in the first bellowed response

Bull-Crap.
Crossposting is frowned upon *everywhere*.  This is part of basic
netiquette, so there's no need to list it explicitly.  In case you're
American, this might come as a shock to you, but sane people don't need
an "objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they may appear"
warning etched into their rear view mirrors, or warnings on their coffee
cups that they may contain a hot liquid - it's just common sense to them.
Heck, even the first paragraph when you look up "crossposting" on
Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting> warns you:
"Enforcement actions against crossposting individuals vary from simple
admonishments up to total lifetime bans."


> (which is 'only'
> a complaint and not really a response as it offers no information nor advice).

Yes, because my main task here at the moment is List Admin, and I needed
to stop you from doing what you did, fast, because your behavior is
perceived as annoying by the other subscribers.
We can always take care of your technical issues later, after order on
the list has been restored.


> I sent the first message before I subscribed to the list. That resulted in an
> automated response that indicated a listadmin would need to deal with it. I
> then subscribed to the list and as no communication from a listadmin had
> happened assumed that the list was/is quite quiescent so sent the first email
> as a list member.

You did not read the message (or well, maybe you read it, but you failed
to understand the content of it) you were sent upon posting while you
hadn't subscribed yet.

Let me quote from it:
> Due to the GDPR (<https://gdpr-info.eu/>), we are forced to hold back
> your message until you subscribe to our mailing list X2Go-User, as we
> need you to agree to the terms below.  Again, you NEED to subscribe,
> else we CANNOT allow your posting to go through.
> You DO NOT NEED to RE-POST it after subscribing - we'll manually allow
> your message through once you have subscribed (this manuall process may
> take a while, though).  However, *if you are in a hurry* and don't want
> to wait for this to happen, FIRST cancel your original message using the
> link above, THEN subscribe to the list, and FINALLY re-post your message.


Your message was sent on
Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:25:00 +0200 (CEST)
And you subscribed by 17:26.
On
Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:54:17 +0200
your message was admitted to the list, because me or another list admin
saw you had subscribed.

To reiterate: That's less than 90 minutes between post and admission.
And you're complaining we, as volunteers, are not acting fast enough.
Hello?  Do you have any idea what a 90 minute response time would cost
you with any kind of commercial support?  And you expect it for free?

Had you been in a hurry, then you should have proceeded as explained in
the above message: cancel, subscribe, re-post.

You decided not to cancel, but to subscribe AND re-post - even though
this message was admitted to the list (and you should have received a
copy, since you had subscribed since)

This re-post happened at
Mon, 11 Jun 2018 22:33:32 +0200 (CEST)
Which was then automatically cleared on
Mon, 11 Jun 2018 22:39:58 +0200

Then, at Mon, 11 Jun 2018 23:04:56 +0200 (CEST), you cross-posted the
third message, which was automatically cleared on both lists
Mon, 11 Jun 2018 23:15:28 +0200
(since you had previously subscribed to x2go-dev, even before signing up
to x2go-user).


> Then after a not small amount of time and with more than some
> effort I was able to find some of the problem so at that point I forwarded that
> information to both the user list, that which purports to help users,
> and the dev
> list so that the dev team might actually find out that their project was quite
> withering on the vine as it were. I am sorry that you feel so insulted but imo
> your response is quite over the top - - - especially as this issue is
> not exactly new.

I don't know what you're talking about here.  NO ONE BUT YOU has an
issue with this step of the installation process at the moment.
In fact, just to be on the safe side (making bold claims instead of
testing something before replying is the style of Mr. Poettering, but
not mine) I tried not one, but two different fresh installs of Debian,
and added the key as described in the wiki - and it works just as it
should.  See attached screenshots.

Also, since you have been subscribed to X2Go-Dev for quite some time,
and since you seemed totally convinced that you found a bug, you should
have known and followed the instructions on how to report a bug.
Even if this knowledge should have momentarlily escaped you, "How to
report a bug" is a link directly on the Wiki start page, and leads you
to this fine page:
<https://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/wiki:bugs#reporting_bugs>

You skipped all the points listed under the "Also, please list the
following info:" and expect us to predict what you might have done
wrong, or what is going wrong in your installation?  While not all apply
to your situation, 1. and/or 4. would really have helped.
Something like "Debian 9, amd64", instead of just "Debian", you know?
And even the "Debian" part we had to deduce from the URL you posted.

My crystal ball is currently undergoing repairs (it might have cracked
when I threw it against the nearest wall in anger and frustration, after
spending too much time dealing with your messages), however, the "[E]"
you spotted does not stand for "expired", so you're on the wrong track
here as well - the key has not expired.
A wild guess would be that you're either having an issue communicating
not only with us, but also with the keyserver - or that the keyserver
had some kind of "hiccup".  If the latter, there's nothing anyone of us
can do about it, as keys.gnupg.net is not operated by us, obviously.  If
the former, you should check your connectivity.  It might be due to a
firewall blocking port 11371.

You could try debugging this by using
gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key E1F958385BFE2B6E

or

gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net:80 --recv-keys E1F958385BFE2B6E

If the first one fails, but the second one works, it is most likely a
firewall issue on your end.

If any of these commands is successful, you can add the key using this
command as the next step

gpg -a --export E1F958385BFE2B6E | sudo apt-key add -


>> This is a volunteer project, so please allow for some time until people
>> reply to your message.
>> If you are in urgent need of support, we suggest contracting one of the
>> companies on the "Professional Support" wiki page:
>> <https://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:professional-support>
> 
> This final part of your message is showing that this 'volunteer' project is
> actually being pushed into becoming a for-profit project. It seems that
> any question to the list has this clause added - - - why?

Again, nothing but Bull-Crap from you.
This was already addressed back when I took over the Community Manager
role, in
<http://lists.x2go.org/pipermail/x2go-project/2015-January/000010.html>.
Let me quote from it:

> 2) Also, I would like to mention that X2Go will remain free (F/LOSS,
>    GPL), as it has always been.  We *will* try to professionalize a few
>    aspects about how the project is *managed*, to make it easier for
>    potential sponsors to financially support the project, but we will
>    *not* sell out and pull a fast one on you, like certain companies
>    did.

X2Go was, is, and always will be a F/LOSS project.  And even if we
wanted to change our minds about this, we couldn't - we're based on
GPL'ed code written by other authors, so we cannot re-license or
dual-license it (which is also the reason why you won't see X2GoClient
in Apple's software store - they do not allow GPL-only software, but
expect you to dual-license everything uploaded to it).

To state one thing very bluntly, since you still haven't managed to
understand it, though: NO ONE ON HERE IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING.

This is a volunteer mailing list, so people respond if and when they
feel like it. Some have classes to attend, some have a day job that has
nothing to do with computers, some have a family, some a combination of
all of this.  We're not here to ask "How high?" when you ask, no,
attempt to command us to jump.
And of course, there are people like me, and like X2Go's founding
fathers, that try to make a living from X2Go support.  Obviously our
paying customers take precedence, because if we wouldn't handle it that
way, no one would bother to pay for our support, and we'd have to spend
our days working dull jobs and having even less time for free X2Go support.
Hate to break it on you, bud, but it's both perfectly ethical and
perfectly legal to make money from offering F/LOSS software support.
You don't want to pay with money?  Totally okay with us.  But accept
that you will be paying with your time - time spent waiting for one of
the volunteers to pick up and answer your question, or for us to answer
after we've taken care of our paying customers.

Your claim that every answer to a question has the commercial support
hint added is far from the truth as well.
The general guideline for it is:
This hint gets added if the poster is somehow indicating that they are
asking for support for a commercial use case (e.g. by mentioning their
company in the message itself, in the message footer, or by posting from
a company E-Mail address, or by asking for support regarding a feature
usually only used in larger environments, like the broker). Same goes
for universities and similar institutions.  Some of those are actually
quite happy to learn that there is commercial support available.  Also,
the hint gets added if the poster seems to be in a hurry/under pressure
to get things running - this was the reason why it was applied to the
message sent to you.

If you think less than 90 minutes between posting a message and
admitting it on the list is too long, if you think not receiving a reply
within 5 hours is too long and entitles you to re-post, if you can't be
bothered to sign up for commercial support to resolve this when you are
in a hurry, then you're free to take your "business" elsewhere.
Unsubscribing voluntarily is free, painless, and instant.

-Stefan Baur,
with his X2Go List Admin and Community Manager hats on.

-- 
BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Geschäftsführer: Stefan Baur
Eichenäckerweg 10, 89081 Ulm | Registergericht Ulm, HRB 724364
Fon/Fax 0731 40 34 66-36/-35 | USt-IdNr.: DE268653243
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