[X2go-dev] new to the list, offering support

[Mike Gabriel]

Dear Heinz, dear Alex, dear list-folks,

On Sa 26 Jun 2010 22:35:56 CEST "Heinz-M. Graesing" wrote:

> Am 25.06.2010 19:23, schrieb Mike Gabriel:
>
> Hello Mike - Thank you!
>
>>   o vhosts for testing (on root servers, available sometime in
>>     September/Octobre)
>>     this year)
>
> This is interesting for public testing environments. There are some very
> intersting desktop project which should be seen by the world (cream
> desktop environment, sugar,...) of cause the world should also see
> x2goplugin. We are looking for sponsored public testing environments.

OK, I will put this into my calendar for Octobre this year (roughly).  
--- In Octobre I will hire another root server that will have a couple  
of spare resources. I will come back to you once the machine is up and  
running... (cream desktop environment looks promising...).

>>   o skills in Perl, Python, PHP

I forgot heavy bashing...

> The next administration interface will be build on a JSON-RPC api. We'll
> build an ajax interface, but there will sure be the need for other
> flavours of administration gui and some php examples (which we'll won't
> build).

I am planning to utilize GOsa² for customers' infrastructure  
management... I think a GOsa² plugin for x2go management hasn't been  
startet yet, has it? Thus, once you have the JSON-RPC api ready, a  
management plugin for GOsa² could be nice, couldn't it?

>>   o genuine skills in communication (at least I hope I have them)
>
> This might be the most needed help at the moment. As the discussion is
> already moving towards the help with the topic "ubuntu" I'll try to
> inform you about what is and was going on.
> We are developing on debian and we are building packages for debian
> (i386, aamd64, ppc). As we are administrators of x2go systems too, we'll
> go on building those packages as we'll need them.

OK, Debian is completely covered by you then. I read about the NX/Xorg  
problem that hinders projects like freenx (rest-in-peace), neatx and  
also x2go to move into official Debian repositories.

Thus, staying with an own x2go .deb repository for Debian (and also a  
Ubuntu ppa) will stay _the_ option until x2go is available in Debian  
Sid.

> After some people wanted to use x2go on ubuntu, we've asked them and
> some ubuntu members, how to build packages for ubuntu. There where some
> guidlines we should (needed to) follow and so we've developed a own
> version of x2go for ubuntu. This version was based on the unchanged
> nxlibs and some other changes to the normal branch of x2go. We've
> released those packages on launchpad and started a rfp.

OK...

> Then there where a lot of discussions about how to proceed - which all
> would have lead to a totally incompatible version and to a lot of work
> on the webguis of canonical.

Could you specify on that?

   o Why unchanged nxlibs?
   o Why incompatible?
   o Why a lot of web-gui work? What kind of work?

> We've stopped the development of this version and added ubuntu
> compatibility to our debian version.

Which is sensible... Is it a problem to use your source code tree for  
building Ubuntu packages on launchpad?

> Later we introduced a meta package
> named "x2goserver-home" which should contain all needed modifications on
> x2go to work on ubuntu. We are testing x2go with the most recent ubuntu
> versions but we are no ubuntu users.

On Ubuntu Lucid and Karmic (I have no Jaunty instance around) x2go  
works perfect. Only problematic is cross-distro usage of pulseaudio  
(x2goserver on Ubuntu Lucid, x2goclient on Debian Lenny). Also  
problematic is pulseaudio usage between Debian Squeeze (server) and  
Lenny (client) ... (i.e. applications on the x2goserver that are  
compiled against new libpulse libs and are then expected to run on an  
old pulseaudio daemon on the x2goclient --- haven't tested the other  
way round, yet...).

pulseaudio has experienced quite some changes between the release of  
Debian Lenny and Ubuntu Lucid / Debian Squeeze. Maintaining  
compatibility of x2go multimedia features between Lenny and  
Squeeze/Lucid from my point of view would mean also providing most a  
very recent backport of pulseaudio (and many other libs like libsnd,  
libvorbis, ...). I am currently compiling backport packages on my  
Debian Lenny system to verify this...

> Besides the packaging for ubuntu there was an rfp for debian - which is
> in our eyes very important to x2go. It is now closed and Jonas will
> start his work on x2go - thank you Jonas - thank you Skolelinux!
> If those packages will reach unstable, they will be accessible to ubuntu
> too.

This is good news... How did you ship around the duplication-of-code  
issue in NX/Xorg??? (Very curious...). Could you please confirm my  
repetition of your statement. x2go has been accepted in Debian and  
will soon appear in Debian Sid!?! Is it already in Debian's  
experimental repository?

> So why I answered this on you lines of "skills of communication"? This
> is, because the described development caused a lot of emotional
> reactions. We receive a lot of emails of ubuntu users and they describe
> (some times not only polied) us their needs.

What are their needs, exactly??? It is possible to install your  
3.0.1-x packages and also use them virtually flawlessly on Ubuntu  
systems. To know people's needs is important to address them  
adequately. Most people do not always want an answer, quite a couple  
of them just want to _feel_ heard...

> I wan't to add, that we've started the project with a lot of
> communication possibilities(forum/list/bugtracker/...) which lead to a
> lot of work and a lost focus. We reduced the communication to this list
> only and now everyting works fine despite the fact that there a some
> people who are afraid of "mailing lists". There will be a forum for
> newbies soon too (operated by somebody involved in Linux4Afrika).

I was rather surprised to find such an advanced opensource software  
project that was missing ,,standard'' facilities of communication.  
Issues on the x2go-dev list are mostly x2go-users' issues, actual  
discussion about coding, patch snippets etc. are not found in the  
threads.

Another point is that it feels like most of / all of the development  
rests on yours and Alex's shoulders. This is OK, if it is really  
intended. As I hear, there is a lot work to handle, many requests to  
answer etc.

I have the impulse to suggest a couple of things, but this needs  
explicit allowance from your side. And maybe it's just that I do not  
know enough of your internal project structures...

> To get
> back to ubuntu: At the moment there are packages for Arch, Gentoo,
> Mandriva, SuSE,... all those ports a build with maintainers. We think
> this too would be a good idea for ubuntu. The packages could be build
> right out of our *tar.gzs without changes (they are prepared for debian
> package building). The maintainer could do this on launchpad, earn karma
> and do whatever the ubuntu folks wan't to see as success of a project.
> I don't think, that those packages will make their way into ubuntu, but
> a ppa reduced to the ubuntu compatible packages will help accepting x2go
> with ubuntu. Maybe it is a good idea to talk to LUG Ottobrunn which is
> very activly promoting x2go for ubuntu (they too have some experience on
> the topic "communication/ubuntu").

OK. Is anyone of the LUG Ottobrunn listening to this list? PING!!! I  
think a Ubuntu ppa for x2go is a really good idea. And, ike  
neatx/formerly freenx, it does not need to enter Ubuntu directly.  
Especially not, if you are working on official Debian entry anyway. A  
Ubuntu ppa would just be temporary, wouldn't?

So, do I get it right, LUG Ottobrunn hasn't started a Ubuntu ppa for  
x2go, yet? Are they planning to? Who shall be addressed to clarify on  
that. Just to avoid duplicate effort...

>> I live in Kiel, Germany and currently I am working on a SBC/Opensource
>> concept for a couple of grammar schools herearound.
>
> As x2go is used in bavarian schools and with skolelinux in
> Rheinland-Pfalz, please contact me on this topic.

I will do that!

Summary:

   o root server coming up in Octobre... I will let you know when it is ready
     for boarding...
   o GOsa² plugin sometime in the future...
   o Formerly Ubuntu ppa: Why unchanged nxlibs in Ubuntu packages? Why
     incompatible
     with Debian? Why a lot of web-gui work? What kind of web-gui work?
   o About Debian rfp: How did you ship around the duplication-of-code issue in
     NX/Xorg???
   o Allowance for suggesting some aspects of communication? On the list or
     directly first? (Personally, I prefer list discussions)
   o Status of Ubuntu ppa at LUG Ottobrunn? Contact partner there? Otherwise:
     Mike becomes Ubuntu ppa maintainer?

Many greetings,
Mike



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