Re: [X2Go-Project] [X2Go-Dev] RfC: How should X2Go handle commercial offers/sponsorships and discussions related to that?
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Am 27.01.2015 um 14:13 schrieb Jos Wolfkamp:
Is this commercial interest? not letting it be known that one is using X2Go?
Jos, I can only ask you to believe me that this is a very serious matter for this particular sponsor, and any further attempts at digging out what the reason is or who that sponsor is will only lead to the sponsor withdrawing from future sponsorships. Please, take my word for it, this sponsor has very valid and justified concerns, but unless they themselves step forward, speak their name, and declare the issue moot, I will not disclose anything.
- -Stefan
BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt) Geschäftsführer: Stefan Baur Eichenäckerweg 10, 89081 Ulm | Registergericht Ulm, HRB 724364 Fon/Fax 0731 40 34 66-36/-35 | USt-IdNr.: DE268653243 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
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No problem, I do not need to know any further. I am the last one that wants this project to get hurt.
Jos.
Op 27-01-15 om 14:42 schreef Stefan Baur:
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Am 27.01.2015 um 14:13 schrieb Jos Wolfkamp:
Is this commercial interest? not letting it be known that one is using X2Go? Jos, I can only ask you to believe me that this is a very serious matter for this particular sponsor, and any further attempts at digging out what the reason is or who that sponsor is will only lead to the sponsor withdrawing from future sponsorships. Please, take my word for it, this sponsor has very valid and justified concerns, but unless they themselves step forward, speak their name, and declare the issue moot, I will not disclose anything.
- -Stefan
BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt) Geschäftsführer: Stefan Baur Eichenäckerweg 10, 89081 Ulm | Registergericht Ulm, HRB 724364 Fon/Fax 0731 40 34 66-36/-35 | USt-IdNr.: DE268653243 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
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Am 27.01.2015 um 14:44 schrieb Jos:
No problem, I do not need to know any further. I am the last one that wants this project to get hurt.
Jos.
Thank you for your understanding, Jos. :-)
One thing I can disclose, as it is more or less unrelated, is that I have never accepted, nor will I ever accept sponsorships/contracts from ethically questionable sources like the military or nuclear power plant operators.
They can use X2Go - as it is GPL, we can't keep that from happening - but they will have to look for paid support elsewhere, and I'm not even going to handle donations from such entities through my company.
That is not what we provide anonymity for.
- -Stefan (now speaking as CEO of BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt))
BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt) Geschäftsführer: Stefan Baur Eichenäckerweg 10, 89081 Ulm | Registergericht Ulm, HRB 724364 Fon/Fax 0731 40 34 66-36/-35 | USt-IdNr.: DE268653243 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
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Hi Stefan,
On Di 27 Jan 2015 15:46:48 CET, Stefan Baur wrote:
Am 27.01.2015 um 14:44 schrieb Jos:
No problem, I do not need to know any further. I am the last one that wants this project to get hurt.
Jos.
Thank you for your understanding, Jos. :-)
One thing I can disclose, as it is more or less unrelated, is that I have never accepted, nor will I ever accept sponsorships/contracts from ethically questionable sources like the military or nuclear power plant operators.
They can use X2Go - as it is GPL, we can't keep that from happening - but they will have to look for paid support elsewhere, and I'm not even going to handle donations from such entities through my company.
That is not what we provide anonymity for.
- -Stefan (now speaking as CEO of BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt))
Thanks for making this statement in public. We have discussed this on
private chat recently and I am very glad that we are on the same track
regarding this!!!
Same, as Stefan said above for his company, applies to my company.
Mike
--
DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby fon: +49 (1520) 1976 148
GnuPG Key ID 0x25771B31 mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xf...
Hey, we need to get work done too!!
In all seriousness and honesty, I should note that my interests on this list are both personal for home use and professional. I work for a federal nuclear research laboratory in the US. If my participation here causes conflict, please let me know.
-- Kermit Short
Kermit Short DCS-ISS
From: x2go-dev-bounces@lists.x2go.org [x2go-dev-bounces@lists.x2go.org] on behalf of Mike Gabriel [mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 8:57 AM To: Stefan Baur Cc: x2go-project@lists.x2go.org; x2go-dev@lists.x2go.org Subject: Re: [X2Go-Dev] [X2Go-Project] RfC: How should X2Go handle commercial offers/sponsorships and discussions related to that?
Hi Stefan,
On Di 27 Jan 2015 15:46:48 CET, Stefan Baur wrote:
Am 27.01.2015 um 14:44 schrieb Jos:
No problem, I do not need to know any further. I am the last one that wants this project to get hurt.
Jos.
Thank you for your understanding, Jos. :-)
One thing I can disclose, as it is more or less unrelated, is that I have never accepted, nor will I ever accept sponsorships/contracts from ethically questionable sources like the military or nuclear power plant operators.
They can use X2Go - as it is GPL, we can't keep that from happening - but they will have to look for paid support elsewhere, and I'm not even going to handle donations from such entities through my company.
That is not what we provide anonymity for.
- -Stefan (now speaking as CEO of BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt))
Thanks for making this statement in public. We have discussed this on private chat recently and I am very glad that we are on the same track regarding this!!!
Same, as Stefan said above for his company, applies to my company.
Mike
--
DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby fon: +49 (1520) 1976 148
GnuPG Key ID 0x25771B31 mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xf...
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Am 27.01.2015 um 17:02 schrieb Short, Kermit:
In all seriousness and honesty, I should note that my interests on this list are both personal for home use and professional. I work for a federal nuclear research laboratory in the US. If my participation here causes conflict, please let me know.
The project is open to everybody adhering to the GPL. If you post bug reports or even send in patches, the whole community profits from it, not just your institution. Plus, your participation is open and obvious (it's not that you're sending work-related mail from a gmail account, your mail account clearly shows where you're coming from, everybody can look up lanl.gov in a browser). Commercial support usually means some sort of off-list hand-holding and maybe internally maintained forks. That is what I don't want to get my hands involved in when it comes to military or nuclear use, and neither does Mike#1.
Note that I signed that previous message in a way that clearly indicates I was speaking as the CEO of my company, and not as the X2Go Project/Community Leader.
In the same sense, the statement above is my personal take on the matter, I am not speaking for the project as a whole. Others may choose to reply to you, or ignore you, that is up to them.
In case this becomes an issue for other X2Go members, I would request a poll before going "ex cathera" on the matter.
- -Stefan, again NOT speaking for the project, only "pro se" (and maybe Mike#1 ;-)).
BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt) Geschäftsführer: Stefan Baur Eichenäckerweg 10, 89081 Ulm | Registergericht Ulm, HRB 724364 Fon/Fax 0731 40 34 66-36/-35 | USt-IdNr.: DE268653243 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
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On 27.01.2015 06:37 PM, Stefan Baur wrote:
Am 27.01.2015 um 17:02 schrieb Short, Kermit:
I work for a federal nuclear research laboratory in the US. If my participation here causes conflict, please let me know.
That is what I don't want to get my hands involved in when it comes to military or nuclear use, and neither does Mike#1.
While I can understand your ethical point of not supporting those sectors commercially, I feel you're both missing one particular dimension.
The technology is here and, especially in countries other than Germany, here to stay. I'm not judging, whether this is good or bad. I will, however, determine, that whenever someone uses X2Go, this implies one less possibility to use Windows. Assuming the constraint, that at least some nuclear power plants will not be shut down any time soon, I feel better knowing their computers are running a Linux-based operating system and not Windows.
Mihai
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Am 27.01.2015 um 20:00 schrieb Mihai Moldovan:
The technology is here and, especially in countries other than Germany, here to stay. I'm not judging, whether this is good or bad. I will, however, determine, that whenever someone uses X2Go, this implies one less possibility to use Windows. Assuming the constraint, that at least some nuclear power plants will not be shut down any time soon, I feel better knowing their computers are running a Linux-based operating system and not Windows.
Since we do offer a Windows client, you cannot be sure of that. In fact, they may be using X2Go to do some less important stuff on a remote Linux box while running their reactor control on some Windows variant trojanized by Stuxnet.
- -Stefan
BAUR-ITCS UG (haftungsbeschränkt) Geschäftsführer: Stefan Baur Eichenäckerweg 10, 89081 Ulm | Registergericht Ulm, HRB 724364 Fon/Fax 0731 40 34 66-36/-35 | USt-IdNr.: DE268653243 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
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On 27.01.2015 08:05 PM, Stefan Baur wrote:
Since we do offer a Windows client, you cannot be sure of that. In fact, they may be using X2Go to do some less important stuff on a remote Linux box while running their reactor control on some Windows variant trojanized by Stuxnet.
That's very valid and true. However, the X2Go server does not support running on Windows, as far as I know.
Additionally, even a "less important", thus potentially neglected(!) and as such a greater risk to security IFF connected to the "main" network, computer not running Windows is a good thing, to my mind.
Mihai
This would imply that Linux is more secure than Windows. I would argue that any operating system is equally vulnerable. Don't get me wrong, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Linux advocate, but a system is no more or less secure simply because of the OS it runs. Security has to do mostly with how aware users are of computer security these days. The overwhelming majority of attacks are perpetrated via phishing and other social engineering attacks, as opposed to someone managing to use system exploits to force their way into a system.
It may even be that a Windows system running at our site is more secure than a Linux system running at your average run of the mill business site. We do try to dilligently care for our Nation's nuclear secrets ;-)
Either way, this is way off the topic of the thread...
Kermit Short
From: Mihai Moldovan [ionic@ionic.de] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 12:00 PM To: Stefan Baur; Short, Kermit; Mike Gabriel Cc: x2go-project@lists.x2go.org; x2go-dev@lists.x2go.org Subject: Re: [X2Go-Project] [X2Go-Dev] RfC: How should X2Go handle commercial offers/sponsorships and discussions related to that?
On 27.01.2015 06:37 PM, Stefan Baur wrote:
Am 27.01.2015 um 17:02 schrieb Short, Kermit:
I work for a federal nuclear research laboratory in the US. If my participation here causes conflict, please let me know.
That is what I don't want to get my hands involved in when it comes to military or nuclear use, and neither does Mike#1.
While I can understand your ethical point of not supporting those sectors commercially, I feel you're both missing one particular dimension.
The technology is here and, especially in countries other than Germany, here to stay. I'm not judging, whether this is good or bad. I will, however, determine, that whenever someone uses X2Go, this implies one less possibility to use Windows. Assuming the constraint, that at least some nuclear power plants will not be shut down any time soon, I feel better knowing their computers are running a Linux-based operating system and not Windows.
Mihai
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Jos -
Mihai Moldovan -
Mike Gabriel -
Short, Kermit -
Stefan Baur