This is very disappointing. It's been 6 months since this report was filed (and since the last release) and even though it was acknowledged in July, it still was not fixed in the current version. Will we be stuck with this bug for another six months?
On 2013-09-16 13:38, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote:
This is very disappointing. It's been 6 months since this report was filed (and since the last release) and even though it was acknowledged in July, it still was not fixed in the current version. Will we be stuck with this bug for another six months?
Filing and acknowledging bugs does not fix them. You get X2Go for free, thus I can see no justification for you to complain. Instead of whining you could give something back to those people who spent many hours working on X2Go for free(!). Either by providing a patch your self or by putting out a bounty.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Yes, yes, we know. The software is free. Every time anyone expresses concern with something like the, this is the argument that comes forth, which suddenly makes our concerns invalid if we don't suddenly know how to fix the problem ourselves in a language we're not familiar with. I am grateful for the software, but as a developer myself, I find that programmers are way too sensitive to criticism. Sometimes users get upset when glaring issues are put on the back burner while other, much less severe bugs are added to new releases. It's going to happen and it's a critical part of the feedback and development cycle. Never is "why don't you fix it yourself?" a proper response.
On Sep 16, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Moritz Struebe <Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>> wrote:
On 2013-09-16 13:38, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote: This is very disappointing. It's been 6 months since this report was filed (and since the last release) and even though it was acknowledged in July, it still was not fixed in the current version. Will we be stuck with this bug for another six months?
Filing and acknowledging bugs does not fix them. You get X2Go for free, thus I can see no justification for you to complain. Instead of whining you could give something back to those people who spent many hours working on X2Go for free(!). Either by providing a patch your self or by putting out a bounty.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Were getting off topic, but normally people spend their free time with things that satisfy them. Satisfaction can be gained by money, but for a lot of OSS it's because its something that person developing it uses: If some minor issue is bugging me, I'll spend time fixing it. If there is I major issue, but it doesn't bug me, there is no satisfaction in fixing it, unless I get satisfaction by people telling me that I did a great job. People just complaining do not help at all. Besides: Mac is definitely no major target platform. AFAIK neverpanic is currently working on it, and he already put quite some time into getting it to work the way it does. Thus it was no "why don't you fix it yourself?", but a "Fix it yourself, pay for it being fixed or stop complaining." - After all the broker is an Enterprise feature, thus spending a little money would do no bad.....
Morty
On 2013-09-16 14:39, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote:
Yes, yes, we know. The software is free. Every time anyone expresses concern with something like the, this is the argument that comes forth, which suddenly makes our concerns invalid if we don't suddenly know how to fix the problem ourselves in a language we're not familiar with. I am grateful for the software, but as a developer myself, I find that programmers are way too sensitive to criticism. Sometimes users get upset when glaring issues are put on the back burner while other, much less severe bugs are added to new releases. It's going to happen and it's a critical part of the feedback and development cycle. Never is "why don't you fix it yourself?" a proper response.
On Sep 16, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Moritz Struebe <Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de <mailto:Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>> wrote:
On 2013-09-16 13:38, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote:
This is very disappointing. It's been 6 months since this report was filed (and since the last release) and even though it was acknowledged in July, it still was not fixed in the current version. Will we be stuck with this bug for another six months?
Filing and acknowledging bugs does not fix them. You get X2Go for free, thus I can see no justification for you to complain. Instead of whining you could give something back to those people who spent many hours working on X2Go for free(!). Either by providing a patch your self or by putting out a bounty.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 06:21:19PM +0200, Moritz Struebe wrote:
AFAIK neverpanic is currently working on it,
No, he isn't.
and he already put quite some time into getting it to work the way it does.
No, he didn't. He did put some time into getting the build automated, but that's about it.
After all the broker is an Enterprise feature, thus spending a little money would do no bad.
Morty, apparently you didn't read the bug. It does not only affect broker mode, but also re-connecting after the first connection in standard x2goclient.
-- Clemens Lang MacPorts Developer
Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this Bug report.
This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received.
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If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 139@bugs.x2go.org.
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Taking this off-Bug.....
On 2013-09-16 18:28, Clemens Lang wrote:
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 06:21:19PM +0200, Moritz Struebe wrote:
AFAIK neverpanic is currently working on it, No, he isn't.
Arg, never remove a sentence without reading the rest in the new context. That should have been "working on the MacOS version of X2Go". Or is anyone else working on it at all?
and he already put quite some time into getting it to work the way it does. No, he didn't. He did put some time into getting the build automated, but that's about it.
Which IMO is a major contribution in terms of Mac....
After all the broker is an Enterprise feature, thus spending a little money would do no bad. Morty, apparently you didn't read the bug. It does not only affect broker mode, but also re-connecting after the first connection in standard x2goclient.
You are right, I only read the original report and relied on the topic.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
I'm honestly not even sure what all this talk of broker mode even is. I've never configured such a thing. I'm not an enterprise user. I've just used the standard interface and every time I exit a session, the program no longer responds to keyboard input when I try to re-connect. I contributed to this bug report because it seems to me to be the same issue. That means it affects every user, not just those using broker mode. To me, that seems like something worth fixing without having to coerce your individual, non-enterprise users to pay a bounty for properly functioning interface. That's why it's in a bug report and not a feature request.
On Sep 16, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Moritz Struebe <Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>> wrote:
Were getting off topic, but normally people spend their free time with things that satisfy them. Satisfaction can be gained by money, but for a lot of OSS it's because its something that person developing it uses: If some minor issue is bugging me, I'll spend time fixing it. If there is I major issue, but it doesn't bug me, there is no satisfaction in fixing it, unless I get satisfaction by people telling me that I did a great job. People just complaining do not help at all. Besides: Mac is definitely no major target platform. AFAIK neverpanic is currently working on it, and he already put quite some time into getting it to work the way it does. Thus it was no "why don't you fix it yourself?", but a "Fix it yourself, pay for it being fixed or stop complaining." - After all the broker is an Enterprise feature, thus spending a little money would do no bad.....
Morty
On 2013-09-16 14:39, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote: Yes, yes, we know. The software is free. Every time anyone expresses concern with something like the, this is the argument that comes forth, which suddenly makes our concerns invalid if we don't suddenly know how to fix the problem ourselves in a language we're not familiar with. I am grateful for the software, but as a developer myself, I find that programmers are way too sensitive to criticism. Sometimes users get upset when glaring issues are put on the back burner while other, much less severe bugs are added to new releases. It's going to happen and it's a critical part of the feedback and development cycle. Never is "why don't you fix it yourself?" a proper response.
On Sep 16, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Moritz Struebe <Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>> wrote:
On 2013-09-16 13:38, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote: This is very disappointing. It's been 6 months since this report was filed (and since the last release) and even though it was acknowledged in July, it still was not fixed in the current version. Will we be stuck with this bug for another six months?
Filing and acknowledging bugs does not fix them. You get X2Go for free, thus I can see no justification for you to complain. Instead of whining you could give something back to those people who spent many hours working on X2Go for free(!). Either by providing a patch your self or by putting out a bounty.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Taking this off list, too.
On 2013-09-16 18:31, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote:
To me, that seems like something worth fixing without having to coerce your individual, non-enterprise users to pay a bounty for properly functioning interface.
Again, it's matter of motivation. Unfortunately there are too few Mac users who are annoyed by this.... And I can totally not understand why someone should spend his free time, while others are not willing to put out a bounty (or spend their free time to make some money and then donate that money)..... Like coding for an OSS is not as worthy as coding for some other, commercial project.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Listen, man, I totally get everything you're saying. I know that it's all done for free with your own time and I get why open source developers accept donations. Again, I appreciate everything you've done. That being said, you have to imagine that it's frustrating to see a bug like this ignored for six months while dozens of other, arguably less visible bugs are fixed. If I was well versed in the language or framework used for this program, I might have pitched in already. As I said, I'm a developer too, but I wouldn't ask someone to pay me a bounty for something like this because it's something rather basic that should have been caught in the first round of testing by whoever compiled the Mac version, which indicates to me that no testing was done beyond a single connection attempt. To say that there are too few Mac users who are annoyed by this just means that Mac users are not just low priority, but actually zero priority, because every single Mac user will encounter this bug upon performing this routine task just one time. Logging in and logging out is the most basic of elements of pretty much everything we do on a daily basis, but you seem to be fighting the idea of fixing this tooth-and-nail because you didn't like that I had to comment several times before anyone took notice. Now tell me, is that the kind of project you would want to donate to?
I never wanted to have an argument about this. All I did was contribute to a bug report many months ago and I thought someone would take it seriously since I wasn't the only one reporting it. If I had know this was one of those outfits where bug reports don't matter, even when someone else marks it as critical, I never would have bothered.
On Sep 16, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Moritz Struebe <Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>> wrote:
Taking this off list, too.
On 2013-09-16 18:31, Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) wrote: To me, that seems like something worth fixing without having to coerce your individual, non-enterprise users to pay a bounty for properly functioning interface.
Again, it's matter of motivation. Unfortunately there are too few Mac users who are annoyed by this.... And I can totally not understand why someone should spend his free time, while others are not willing to put out a bounty (or spend their free time to make some money and then donate that money)..... Like coding for an OSS is not as worthy as coding for some other, commercial project.
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de<mailto:struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Hi Christopher, Morty,
On Mo 16 Sep 2013 19:48:35 CEST "Gross, Christopher W. (Chris)" wrote:
I never wanted to have an argument about this. All I did was
contribute to a bug report many months ago and I thought someone
would take it seriously since I wasn't the only one reporting it. If
I had know this was one of those outfits where bug reports don't
matter, even when someone else marks it as critical, I never would
have bothered.
please put down the ,,weapons'' guys!!!
Sometimes free software has peculiar workflows that may appear highly
low-professional perceived throuth the business eye. Many people are
contributing in a several ways to X2Go, but at the moment, most of the
tasks are routed through me. This is a little bit inefficient. For me,
X2Go hacking is a lot about pleasure, so the development of X2Go tends
to be dictate by joy and fun (not by demands of others).
For the last months, X2Go has been lacking man power, as well as
financial focus. If you look at the commits on http://git.x2go.org,
you will be able to see that almost the only person contributing to
the X2Go code is me. And those commits are dictated by the use cases I
have for X2Go. If others have other use cases, then please step in and
either contract me (or anyone else who is able to work on the code) or
provide code your self.
With me and Mac OS X the problem is: I do not use a Mac and I don't
have one. I can access one via VNC, but fixing keyboard problems with
a VNC connection (that is buggy on keyboard mappings anyway) feels not
like a delightful task.
For those, you are not familiar with X2Go coding, here are many other
todos around X2Go where people can jump in:
o Help getting X2Go into as many Linux distros as possible o Conceptual work on crowd-funding o Improve documentation (wiki) o Provide screenshot serieses o Provide physical Mac OS hardware for the developers (i.e. me) o Contract me for getting bugs fixed o Send patches o Join any of the packaging teams (Linux, Mac) o Take over the MS Windows builds of X2Go Client o Join the i18n team and translate X2Go into your language o Provide a teaser www page for www.x2go.org (e.g. like [1]) o Provide howtos for special setups o Provide a getting started page for the wiki ([2]) (Markus: you wanted to do this!!! What happened???) o Let us know your success story with X2Go [3] o Test several different setups and ask questions -> condense our answers into new special case documentation o ...
Greets, Mike
[1] http://www.libreoffice.org/ [2] http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:newtox2go [3] http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:deployment-stories:start
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Clemens Lang -
Gross, Christopher W. (Chris) -
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Moritz Struebe -
owner＠bugs.x2go.org