Hi all, I have just installed Ubuntu 10.04 for a client on a XEN server and the login and using of the gnome desktop was really great! It was very fast login and using the programs was quick and no long waits. The login took about 6 sec from an internet connection. Though video playback is terrible still :) but the sound was smooth mostly having a few stops here and there otherwise its really good. Printing was great but had to stick to pdf printing which the client could live with pressing a few more buttons. The other great thing was that if the connection was cut off for whatever reason it now can connect back to that session, before it was like a roll of the dice. Also another great factor was using 10.04 is login and log out are really fast. The modem setting is a great saver for bad wifi connections. Anyway my main question would be will video playback be looked into? Since with ubuntu 10.04 out and most of the things I have tried seems to have enhanced the speed of ssh and stability. Though most people don't need it now it is a great feature to have since video calls are getting popular it would really enhance x2go usage further.
Hi all, I have just installed Ubuntu 10.04 for a client on a XEN server and the login and using of the gnome desktop was really great! It was very fast login and using the programs was quick and no long waits. The login took about 6 sec from an internet connection. Though video playback is terrible still :) but the sound was smooth mostly having a few stops here and there otherwise its really good. Printing was great but had to stick to pdf printing which the client could live with pressing a few more buttons. The other great thing was that if the connection was cut off for whatever reason it now can connect back to that session, before it was like a roll of the dice. Also another great factor was using 10.04 is login and log out are really fast. The modem setting is a great saver for bad wifi connections. Anyway my main question would be will video playback be looked into? Since with ubuntu 10.04 out and most of the things I have tried seems to have enhanced the speed of ssh and stability. Though most people don't need it now it is a great feature to have since video calls are getting popular it would really enhance x2go usage further. <snip> I don't have an answer to your question. It is an issue for us, too. My ignorant understanding is the algorithms used to optimize partial screen changes as one does when typing a document are very different from optimizing the massive screen changes needed for video. Other
On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 16:51 +0000, cougarmaster wrote: protocols that handle video well (such as SPICE from what I hear), do not work well across WAN links.
But, without wanting to hijack your thread, I'm very curious about your ssh comments as this is a big issue for us and we've been wondering how to optimize ssh for greater resilience on bad connections. What changes has Ubuntu made to the SSH settings to create this improvement? Would you mind posting your SSH version, sshd_config and ssh_config files so we can see if those are just setting tweaks that we can mimic in Debian Lenny? Thanks - John
Hello Cougarmaster,
Am 06.06.2010 18:51, schrieb cougarmaster:
Hi all, Anyway my main question would be will video playback be looked into? Since with ubuntu 10.04 out and most of the things I have tried seems to have enhanced the speed of ssh and stability. Though most people don't need it now it is a great feature to have since video calls are getting popular it would really enhance x2go usage further.
We do have a request for "intelligent media transportation" development. We do have an exact plan to integrate this, but what I don't know is, if the customer will pay for it. A further question is, wether the result can be released as part of x2go, because the code will go to the owner. Maybe there will be a possibility to develop this part as a sponsored feature too.
But first we'll have to finish our work on the new release. As Linuxtag is approaching fast, we needed to spend time on our booth and the things we'll show. We'll be able to show every feature of the new release (even the plasmoid), but we'll not be able to do the packaging in the last day before Linuxtag - sorry. But after Linuxtag has ended this will be the next task after making the new release accessible via git.
The next feature after the new release is published will be as described before the USB portable Windows Client.
After that we'll discuss the "intelligent media transportation". Our Plan is to have XV Channel which will transport the Output to the Client where it should be rendered. This can be used by every media player which can use the XV extension.
I've almost finished the work on the wiki so with the new release we'll make some changes to the website. I've choosen "dokuwiki" as it is just doing what it should do.
see you on Linuxtag,
Heinz
On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 18:26 +0200, Heinz-M. Graesing wrote:
Hello Cougarmaster,
Am 06.06.2010 18:51, schrieb cougarmaster:
Hi all, Anyway my main question would be will video playback be looked into? Since with ubuntu 10.04 out and most of the things I have tried seems to have enhanced the speed of ssh and stability. Though most people don't need it now it is a great feature to have since video calls are getting popular it would really enhance x2go usage further.
We do have a request for "intelligent media transportation" development. We do have an exact plan to integrate this, but what I don't know is, if the customer will pay for it. A further question is, wether the result can be released as part of x2go, because the code will go to the owner. Maybe there will be a possibility to develop this part as a sponsored feature too.
But first we'll have to finish our work on the new release. As Linuxtag is approaching fast, we needed to spend time on our booth and the things we'll show. We'll be able to show every feature of the new release (even the plasmoid), but we'll not be able to do the packaging in the last day before Linuxtag - sorry. But after Linuxtag has ended this will be the next task after making the new release accessible via git.
The next feature after the new release is published will be as described before the USB portable Windows Client.
After that we'll discuss the "intelligent media transportation". Our Plan is to have XV Channel which will transport the Output to the Client where it should be rendered. This can be used by every media player which can use the XV extension.
I've almost finished the work on the wiki so with the new release we'll make some changes to the website. I've choosen "dokuwiki" as it is just doing what it should do.
see you on Linuxtag, <snip> We don't have a lot to contribute financially but we can probably contribute something to this effort if it will help make it generally available. I don't know if others are in a position to add the the kitty
- John
Am 07.06.2010 18:26, schrieb Heinz-M. Graesing:
Hello Cougarmaster,
We do have a request for "intelligent media transportation" development. We do have an exact plan to integrate this, but what I don't know is, if the customer will pay for it. A further question is, wether the result can be released as part of x2go, because the code will go to the owner. Maybe there will be a possibility to develop this part as a sponsored feature too.
This is a comment on my own mail:
A bad thing about the communication with "x2go" (now) is, that really a huge number of people are using the contact form to contact us. So a lot of criticism and requests are not posted in public. So I post now the most sent topics to us:
387 times: NX Compatibility needed 276 times: x2goserver running on windows (PLEASE!!!) 263 times: "ubuntu" 104 times: USB Forward 101 times: Display sharing 99 times: Multimedia Support 98 times: Ajax/PHP Client 90 times: PHP Administration Interface 67 times: Translation
I've created the list by searching for content inside the Subject line. So this is not a 100% accurate List but it shows us a bit, what x2gousers are thinking about.
And we'll try to work on the items on the list, which can be "really" done. And "multimedia support" is one of the wishes we really wan't to work on.
The nice thing about "sponsored development" is, that the result can go back to the project and everybody can use it. And of cause it helps us to buy some things we need for the development and representation like on the Linuxtag.
So if there is the chance to develop a feature and to get some help, we try to do so.
To get back to the topic "communication": We consider to close the Form or to write some lines to invite the people to write to the list.
And we really think it will help us, when the x2go-community site is up and running (good luck Tobias!!!). Maybe somebody can help him with his typo3 issue!?
bye,
Heinz
Heinz-M. Graesing schreef:
Am 07.06.2010 18:26, schrieb Heinz-M. Graesing:
Hello Cougarmaster,
We do have a request for "intelligent media transportation" development. We do have an exact plan to integrate this, but what I don't know is, if the customer will pay for it. A further question is, wether the result can be released as part of x2go, because the code will go to the owner. Maybe there will be a possibility to develop this part as a sponsored feature too.
This is a comment on my own mail:
A bad thing about the communication with "x2go" (now) is, that really a huge number of people are using the contact form to contact us. So a lot of criticism and requests are not posted in public. So I post now the most sent topics to us:
387 times: NX Compatibility needed
Really? I like the x2go-way.
But maybe a problem is code-duplication. E.g. Debian would not like a nx-libarary and a changed-nx-library. But I think it's possible to find a way (but it's complex).
276 times: x2goserver running on windows (PLEASE!!!) 263 times: "ubuntu"
When X2go would be official in Debian, it would be automatically in Ubuntu too. I think that's the right way. And if somebody wants to do it earlier: would be real fine.
104 times: USB Forward
Would be nice
101 times: Display sharing
That's what I want ;-)
99 times: Multimedia Support
Would be really nice, but maybe not easy.
98 times: Ajax/PHP Client
I don't think it's possible.
90 times: PHP Administration Interface
Would be nice ;-)
67 times: Translation
Important...
I've created the list by searching for content inside the Subject line. So this is not a 100% accurate List but it shows us a bit, what x2gousers are thinking about.
And we'll try to work on the items on the list, which can be "really" done. And "multimedia support" is one of the wishes we really wan't to work on.
The nice thing about "sponsored development" is, that the result can go back to the project and everybody can use it. And of cause it helps us to buy some things we need for the development and representation like on the Linuxtag.
So if there is the chance to develop a feature and to get some help, we try to do so.
To get back to the topic "communication": We consider to close the Form or to write some lines to invite the people to write to the list.
Good idea. Answering private mail is nice, but too much work for a bigger project.
And we really think it will help us, when the x2go-community site is up and running (good luck Tobias!!!). Maybe somebody can help him with his typo3 issue!?
With regards, Paul van der Vlis.
Heinz-M. Graesing schreef:
see you on Linuxtag,
Please tell much about the difficulties to get X2go official into Debian. The people who can help are in the room!
( If you don't, I will ask you about it ;-)
With regards, Paul van der Vlis.
Hello Paul,
Jonas Smedegaard wants to do the packaging of x2go for the official sources. There are several things which need to be discussed, but he said - nothing would "really" prevent x2go on the long run (as we a trying to work on the issues):
The "problems" are part of the nxlibs and they are:
- There is duplicate Code inside the nxlibs - in fact it is a whole xorg server -> as debian tries to avoid duplicate sources, this needs to be changed some time.
- There is code inside the nxlibs which is unmaintained. This is again the xorg code which is outdated and again debian tries to avoid unmaintained code.
Besides those two arguments I don't know about further problems but to avoid licence "problems" a nx "redesign" should be more look like an module for xorg.
If anybody sees any other arguments, please feel free to reply this mail.
best regards,
Heinz
Am 07.06.2010 21:46, schrieb Paul van der Vlis:
Heinz-M. Graesing schreef:
see you on Linuxtag,
Please tell much about the difficulties to get X2go official into Debian. The people who can help are in the room!
( If you don't, I will ask you about it ;-)
With regards, Paul van der Vlis.
Heinz-M. Graesing schreef:
Hello Paul,
Jonas Smedegaard wants to do the packaging of x2go for the official sources.
Many people have tried to package NX for Debian, it's not easy.
There are several things which need to be discussed, but he said - nothing would "really" prevent x2go on the long run (as we a trying to work on the issues):
The "problems" are part of the nxlibs and they are:
- There is duplicate Code inside the nxlibs - in fact it is a whole xorg server -> as debian tries to avoid duplicate sources, this needs to be changed some time.
- There is code inside the nxlibs which is unmaintained. This is again the xorg code which is outdated and again debian tries to avoid unmaintained code.
The Xorg-code is the biggest problem. I am not sure how it is with SSH, Cups, GKrellM or Samba (what was duplicated code too).
Maybe good to tell something about "what allready has been done to avoid code duplication".
Besides those two arguments I don't know about further problems but to avoid licence "problems" a nx "redesign" should be more look like an module for xorg.
But so far I know there is no module-infrastructure for this kind of plugins in X.org. And are the X.org people willing to add and maintain NX as a modules in X.org? Not sure. Other options are: a rewrite of NX under another license and talking to Nomachine about a license change.
And there is maybe code duplication between Nomachine-NX and X2go-NX, because the libraries are not exactly the same. Some Nomachine-NX code is allready in Debian, like nxproxy. Maybe it's possible to have a NX-base and an splitted NX-X2go and NX-Nomachine, or make it configurable. But do you want to be "upstream" for the NX libs?
Not easy, teamwork is needed, you can't do it all on your own. I would say: end the speach with that.
What we need are people who know really know a lot about integrating libraries to avoid duplicated code, X.org specialists, maybe people who want to be upstream for changed NX libraries, and advocates who can talk to Nomachine and X.org people (or to Google for the "summer of code").
But first show the people how great X2go is ;-)
With regards, Paul van der Vlis.
On 6 June 2010 18:51, cougarmaster <voipster3@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
Anyway my main question would be will video playback be looked into? Since with ubuntu 10.04 out and most of the things I have tried seems to have enhanced the speed of ssh and stability. Though most people don't need it now it is a great feature to have since video calls are getting popular it would really enhance x2go usage further.
It's far from the most important feature, imho. It'd be nice to have, I guess, but if you compare it to the possibility of using a scanner connected to the client, then that's far more important. But anyway... It's on Nomachines roadmap for 4.0, iirc, and I think that's the way forward if any.
However, in some situations, you can probably fake it. If you run gnome-panel with an upper panel from the terminal server and a lower panel from the client, then you get sort of a "mixed-mode". If you then have a launcher for firefox and totem on the lower panel and remove it from the upper panel, then it will feel very natural to launch them on the client while all other applications are run from the ts. The settings and history will be stored on the client, of course, but you might be able to fake that as well, using some sort of synchronization. If you click on URLs in other applications, then you'll still launch the application on the ts instead of the client, but you could probably setup a redirect somehow. If you make a script that takes Firefox' parameters and save them to a file which the client polls, for instance and then fire up Firefox on the client using the same parameters.
I realize it's not exactly what you asked for, but it might be a good workaround for the time being.
Anyway, I hope it helps you.
Jo-Erlend Schinstad
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cougarmaster -
Heinz-M. Graesing -
Jo-Erlend Schinstad -
John A. Sullivan III -
Paul van der Vlis