Dear Heinz, Alex, Mike and Moritz, Dear List,
the actual message I want to leave here is short -
but I think I have to give some explanations first so that my message
doesn`t irritate anyone here (probably a rather female way of saying
something, we like to explain things lengthy ;-)).
The professional background of writing this mail is, that mike and I
are working together at a project in which we are setting up
(educational) IT-Systems at schools in Kiel.
We want to use X2Go for this project and thats why I started reading
this list a couple of weeks ago; its also the reason why I am very
interested in having X2Go work well.
I have no technical IT-backgound, my contribution to and role in our
project is to set up and implement a well-performing structure for all
the communication that is needed (leading seminars, coaching,
mediation, moderation of meetings etc.).
The private background is that I am in relationship with mike - that
was first, the working together started only a few months ago.
One reason why I really enjoy working in an IT-context using Open
Source Software is because I am deeply moved and inspired by the
social, political and collaborative context in which every step of
development is taking place.
Thats my context in which I am reading this mailing-list.
Now I have just read Mikes last mail and the only thing I want to
contribute is:
YOU GUYS MUST TALK!
The guys I mean with that are Moritz, Alex, Heinz and Mike.
As far as I can see the four of you are all giving your best to do a
very good job - but you might generate heavy misunderstandings and
lots of extra work if your communication at this point of the
developing process is taking place "only" via mail and programming.
There are very cheap telephone numbers which you can use for
conference calls, I could give some of that numbers to Mike.
I think it would not take much time to have a conversation on the
phone, but it could take a lot of time if you dont talk alltogether
about the next steps necessary to take.
I am convinced that it would take a lot of stress out of the process,
that it would move forward the whole project and that it would bring
the freedom back into the space of the mailing list.
And, very important: NOTHING IS WRONG - its all development ;-).
Angela
Zitat von Mike Gabriel <mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de>:
Hi Moritz,
On Do 27 Jan 2011 18:55:51 CET Moritz Struebe wrote:
Hi Heinz,
don't put too much work into it. We already started at
https://code.launchpad.net/~siretart/+archive/x2go and it's
probably not worth doing it twice. Basically the code is imported from our git-repo (
http://i4git.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/ ) and then built on
launchpad. x2goagent gave us some trouble, but we hope it will build tonight.
The x2go clients are next on our todo-list. That way we should have
a minimal system up and running soon. At the moment we are only
building for lenny as this is the plattform we test on. Once
everything is running there must be a transition from this
"private" environment to a more open one, of course. But we want
to be able to walk, before we start running. :)Cheers Morty
as I understand your current way of handling things you are actually
forking X2go for a university internal project. I am completely
fine with a fork, but the please:(a) state it officially as a fork (b) name the project differently
My main point is that you do not at all cooperate, discuss next
steps etc. You are just doing your thing. But maybe I missed part
of the discussion (private correspondence?)...Complete disapproval of your communication methods, Mike
--
DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, dorfstr. 27, 24245 barmissen fon: +49 (4302) 281418, fax: +49 (4302) 281419
GnuPG Key ID 0xB588399B mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xf...
-- Angela Fuß Rothenstein 5a 24214 Neudorf-Bornstein mail: angela.fuss@das-netzwerkteam.de fon: +49 (4346) 9392844 mobil: +49 (1577) 4197937
Hi there,
just to give the list a quick update. Alex, Reinhard, Michael (might be known as simigern to SunRay-Users) and I met yesterday evening. We had a very interesting discussion. The main result was that we have similar use cases for, and therefore requirements to x2go. I am very optimistic that there will be good cooperation between us. That said, it was only an exchange of Ideas, no decisions were made.
Cheers Morty
On 2011-01-27 22:05, Angela Fuß wrote:
YOU GUYS MUST TALK!
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Hi Moritz,
On Do 03 Feb 2011 11:21:36 CET Moritz Struebe wrote:
Hi there,
just to give the list a quick update. Alex, Reinhard, Michael (might be known as simigern to SunRay-Users) and I met yesterday evening. We had a very interesting discussion. The main result was that we have similar use cases for, and therefore requirements to x2go. I am very optimistic that there will be good cooperation between us. That said, it was only an exchange of Ideas, no decisions were made.
Cheers Morty
This sounds great!!!
Greets, Mike
--
DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, dorfstr. 27, 24245 barmissen fon: +49 (4302) 281418, fax: +49 (4302) 281419
GnuPG Key ID 0xB588399B mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xf...
Hej Moritz, Alex, Heinz, Michael and Reinhard, Hej List,
great that you met each other and good that you are optimistic about
the results!
As I started to interfer I want to add some comments to what I read
between all the written and not-written lines of the last 10 days.
I felt that the space of communication on the list was immediately
free, open and full of appreciation again after you decided to talk.
And there was a lot of creative activity and action!
For now I think its crucial to the process that you communicate VERY
transparently until WHEN you will have CLEAR results and that we all
than can read these results and contribute to them.
Your last mail, Moritz, sounds positive to me and its great that you
put it on the list (!!!) -
but it doesnt tell in a clear way what is going to happen next and in
which period of time what next steps are supposed to happen inside
your team-building-process.
There is no information about the kind of results the group that met
would like to produce.
Thats missing - and it would make a huge difference,
for the group that met, for the list and for X2Go
And:
You have to consider that in a team-building-process it has to have
really annoying and stressful discussions out of which the new great
things can emerge - its not all fine and sunshine when you start to
work in a team!
I am looking forward to your results and to how they will develop out
of your work and your great commitment!
Angela
Zitat von Moritz Struebe <Moritz.Struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>:
Hi there,
just to give the list a quick update. Alex, Reinhard, Michael (might be known as simigern to SunRay-Users) and I met yesterday evening. We had a very interesting discussion. The main result was that we have similar use cases for, and therefore requirements to x2go. I am very optimistic that there will be good cooperation between us. That said, it was only an exchange of Ideas, no decisions were made.
Cheers Morty
On 2011-01-27 22:05, Angela Fuß wrote:
YOU GUYS MUST TALK!
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
-- Angela Fuß Rothenstein 5a 24214 Neudorf-Bornstein mail: angela.fuss@das-netzwerkteam.de fon: +49 (4346) 9392844 mobil: +49 (1577) 4197937
Hi Angela
On 2011-02-03 13:29, Angela Fuß wrote:
For now I think its crucial to the process that you communicate VERY transparently until WHEN you will have CLEAR results and that we all than can read these results and contribute to them.
Because of different reasons (one of them being FOSDEM) I don't think there will be any news until next weeks.
There is no information about the kind of results the group that met would like to produce.
There really are none. It really was mainly a lot of talk of our backgrounds and how we feel about the project. I think our position was and is very clear: We need to be able to deploy and use X2go at our university. To do so we need a code review, distribution quality packaging and a SCM (all said before).
Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Hi folks,
On Do 03 Feb 2011 15:01:14 CET Moritz Struebe wrote:
[...] To do so we need a code review, distribution quality packaging and a SCM (all said before).
Another thing I have prepared last week is a bug tracker (as already
posted on the upstream x2go-dev list). As a bugtracking product I
would like to propose the Horde Bugtracker WHUPS, the main focus for
proposing WHUPS is usability for outsiders.
WHUPS can be filled with tickets by mail or via a web interface. For
mail injection into WHUPS we currently have two different mail
addresses set up:
bugs@x2go.org (-> creates a bug report) patches@x2go.org (-> creates Enhancement requests)
When using mails you can also reply to ticket mails and if you do not
change the subject line (esp. the ticket number) the reply will be
placed in context of the orignial ticket.
People who are interested in a specific issue can watch individual
tickets. All WHUPS communication is mirrored to the mailing list:
x2go-bugs@lists.berlios.de Subscription: https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-bugs
The web interface can be found here: http://code.x2go.org/horde4/whups
However, ticket status updates (bug report has been accepted, issue is
resolved, issue is assigned to Heinz etc.) has currently to be done
via the web interface. It should be possible to tweak the mail2ticket
import filter to enable such functionality, but that's is science
fiction.
What I need from all the (future) X2go developers (including Heinz and
Alex) and also from potential packagers (for reporting upstream bugs)
is a feedback, if you want to use this system or if you rather prefer
another approach.
I will use another vhost of this Horde site for my own customer
projects in the future, as well, so the effort I put into this had to
be invested anyway. Means: no problem if you/we want to choose another
approach. However, I will also be happy, if you like WHUPS... ;-)
The process of setting up the X2go bugtracker has directly been
communicated and planned with Heinz (and indirectly with Alex).
However, it is not yet decided if the X2go project really wants to use
this system.
What I would like to collect now with this mail, is feedback and votes
for or against this bugtracker product, so that we can start using it
productively.
BTW: Normal issue reporters do not need a WHUPS/Horde account. Only
developers need a login in order to edit/update tickets and their
status.
Greetings, Mike
--
DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, dorfstr. 27, 24245 barmissen fon: +49 (4302) 281418, fax: +49 (4302) 281419
GnuPG Key ID 0xB588399B mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xf...
On 02/03/2011 09:35 AM, Mike Gabriel wrote:
Hi folks,
On Do 03 Feb 2011 15:01:14 CET Moritz Struebe wrote:
[...] To do so we need a code review, distribution quality packaging and a SCM (all said before).
Another thing I have prepared last week is a bug tracker (as already posted on the upstream x2go-dev list). As a bugtracking product I would like to propose the Horde Bugtracker WHUPS, the main focus for proposing WHUPS is usability for outsiders.
WHUPS can be filled with tickets by mail or via a web interface. For mail injection into WHUPS we currently have two different mail addresses set up:
bugs@x2go.org (-> creates a bug report) patches@x2go.org (-> creates Enhancement requests)
When using mails you can also reply to ticket mails and if you do not change the subject line (esp. the ticket number) the reply will be placed in context of the orignial ticket.
People who are interested in a specific issue can watch individual tickets. All WHUPS communication is mirrored to the mailing list:
x2go-bugs@lists.berlios.de Subscription: https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-bugs
The web interface can be found here: http://code.x2go.org/horde4/whups
However, ticket status updates (bug report has been accepted, issue is resolved, issue is assigned to Heinz etc.) has currently to be done via the web interface. It should be possible to tweak the mail2ticket import filter to enable such functionality, but that's is science fiction.
What I need from all the (future) X2go developers (including Heinz and Alex) and also from potential packagers (for reporting upstream bugs) is a feedback, if you want to use this system or if you rather prefer another approach.
I will use another vhost of this Horde site for my own customer projects in the future, as well, so the effort I put into this had to be invested anyway. Means: no problem if you/we want to choose another approach. However, I will also be happy, if you like WHUPS... ;-)
The process of setting up the X2go bugtracker has directly been communicated and planned with Heinz (and indirectly with Alex). However, it is not yet decided if the X2go project really wants to use this system.
What I would like to collect now with this mail, is feedback and votes for or against this bugtracker product, so that we can start using it productively.
BTW: Normal issue reporters do not need a WHUPS/Horde account. Only developers need a login in order to edit/update tickets and their status.
Greetings, Mike
Mike, despite the silly name, WHUPS looks like a good bug tracker.
+1
Regards, Gerry
Hi Gerry,
On Do 03 Feb 2011 23:09:03 CET Gerry Reno wrote:
Mike, despite the silly name, WHUPS looks like a good bug tracker.
+1
Thanks for your feedback... The Horde project consists of some
application, most of them with a funny name... (Nag, Kronolith, Turba,
Imp, Mimp, Sork, Ingo, Trean etc.). No clue what the history is of
this name giving...
http://www.horde.org/projects.php
Greets, Mike
--
DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, dorfstr. 27, 24245 barmissen fon: +49 (4302) 281418, fax: +49 (4302) 281419
GnuPG Key ID 0xB588399B mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xf...
Hello list, hello Mike,
Am 03.02.2011 15:01, schrieb Moritz Struebe:
Hi Angela
There really are none. It really was mainly a lot of talk of our backgrounds and how we feel about the project. I think our position was and is very clear: We need to be able to deploy and use X2go at our university. To do so we need a code review, distribution quality packaging and a SCM (all said before).
Morty
This weekend Alex and I will meet Jonas and Mike during the debian edu developer meeting in Zweibrücken. We'll discuss the current situation and the options we have for the project. We'll report about our discussions to keep you up to date.
best Regards,
Heinz
Hej Heinz,
great -
thank you for communicating!!!
Have a wonderful weekend and I am very curious to read or hear your report!
Angela
Zitat von "Heinz-M. Graesing" <x2go-dev@x2go.org>:
Hello list, hello Mike,
Am 03.02.2011 15:01, schrieb Moritz Struebe:
Hi Angela
There really are none. It really was mainly a lot of talk of our backgrounds and how we feel about the project. I think our position was and is very clear: We need to be able to deploy and use X2go at our university. To do so we need a code review, distribution quality packaging and a SCM (all said before).
Morty
This weekend Alex and I will meet Jonas and Mike during the debian edu developer meeting in Zweibrücken. We'll discuss the current situation and the options we have for the project. We'll report about our discussions to keep you up to date.
best Regards,
Heinz
X2go-dev mailing list X2go-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
-- Angela Fuß Rothenstein 5a 24214 Neudorf-Bornstein mail: angela.fuss@das-netzwerkteam.de fon: +49 (4346) 9392844 mobil: +49 (1577) 4197937
On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 11:21 +0100, Moritz Struebe wrote:
Hi there,
just to give the list a quick update. Alex, Reinhard, Michael (might be known as simigern to SunRay-Users) and I met yesterday evening. We had a very interesting discussion. The main result was that we have similar use cases for, and therefore requirements to x2go. I am very optimistic that there will be good cooperation between us. That said, it was only an exchange of Ideas, no decisions were made. <snip> Delighted to hear it and delighted to see this project starting to gain some real traction. Thanks to all - John
-
Angela Fuß -
Gerry Reno -
Heinz-M. Graesing -
John A. Sullivan III -
Mike Gabriel -
Moritz Struebe