Hi,
As you may know, nomachine released the 4th version of NX with web (HTML) support.
I was wondering if PyHoca could help to do it… The approach of nomachine is a bit bloated, so I think the best to do could be this :
Write a PyHoca-Gui which generates a full HTML rendering of the session. Then the user just has to connect to it. The client and the server could be on the same machine, and the user will connect to the web frontend with his browser like with vlc or transmission.
Is that possible ?
gml
PS. of course no sound (etc), for the moment (maybe with a Java or Flash plugin).
Hi gml,
On Di 01 Mär 2011 13:43:18 CET wrote:
Write a PyHoca-Gui which generates a full HTML rendering of the session.
What exactly do you mean by the above phrase?
Currently Python X2go provides an X2goClient API that is very similar
to the normal x2goclient (i.e. depends on XServer, nxproxy,
pulseaudio, uses Paramiko/SSH instead of libssh, brings its own
SFTPServer+Client etc.).
Currently I do not see how you imagine bringing x2goagent's X-based
output into a web page. I am sure such a thing would be possible with
tools like JavaVNC etc., but I am not at all sure if I am getting your
question / idea.
Please elaborate on your thoughts.
THANKS, Mike
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Hi,
sorry for the wait, I'm moving my mail server (at home…)
On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:03:38 +0100, Mike Gabriel <mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de> wrote:
Write a PyHoca-Gui which generates a full HTML rendering of the session.
What exactly do you mean by the above phrase?
Currently I do not see how you imagine bringing x2goagent's X-based output into a web page. I am sure such a thing would be possible with tools like JavaVNC etc., but I am not at all sure if I am getting your question / idea.
I don't know how it's possible, but I know that nomachine do it. And without using Java.
I don't understand well enough how x2goagent works to say how we could do that, but I know we could have a nice client using some HTML5 feature. Even caching can be done with the localStorage feature.
In my case, I really need two things :
— great perf browser plugin, and the current plugin is not bad for that — portable and « instant use » version, need an HTML interface
I don't really know where to start. Nomachine do that : http://www.nomachine.com/img/screenshot/nxwebplayer/diagram2.jpg
Maybe I could start to better understand x2goagent…
Regards, gml
Hello gml,
Am 01.03.2011 13:43, schrieb contact@gmli.fr: Hi,
Write a PyHoca-Gui which generates a full HTML rendering of the session. Then the user just has to connect to it. The client and the server could be on the same machine, and the user will connect to the web frontend with his browser like with vlc or transmission.
I've been playing with the HTML tag "canvas" for a long time now. This is an area where you can draw primitives and can place images accurate. You even can use a "canvas" for animations. This is the only HTML element which can be used for the decribed purpose. The problem of this element is, that it can only be connected to servers via the typical "www" mechanisms. Even if you use the new websocket technology, you wont be able to rebuild the advantages of nx with those tools (yet). We would need to provide some additional tools as part of for example a XPI file (firefox extension), which would destroy the "browser only" construction and would be less powerful as our firefox plugin. There are some VNC implementations based on the canvas element, which you can test by yourself. Maybe it is an idea for you to access a virtual x2go display via an VNC server. This server could then be accessed by one of those solutions.
best Regards,
Heinz
This thread reminded me of I've been wondering about since I read of HTML 5's new video/multimedia capabilities... so I did a search and this article describes ThinVNC use of HTML 5's capability to provide remote desktop via a browser.
http://www.supportsmith.com/ThinVNC/HTML5-VNC.aspx
I'm going to try to set this up and see how it works.
Brian
Well I just posted the previous and up popped a site with the source and binaries for a Remote Desktop that is built on AJAX, JSON and HTML5. It is also listed as GPL3.
URL: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/ThinVnc2.aspx
With Wayland in the future in several distro's (Red Hat and Ubuntu & derivatives) are technologies like this something that could be used in an x2go future?
On 2 March 2011 12:45, brian mullan <bmullan.mail@gmail.com> wrote: [snip] (Remote Desktop can be anything, from a video streaming service to screenshots)
URL: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/ThinVnc2.aspx
With Wayland in the future in several distro's (Red Hat and Ubuntu & derivatives) are technologies like this something that could be used in an x2go future?
Red Hat? I don't think it's likely that they'll switch to Wayland in the near future. Possibly during the next five years, but I think it's more likely they'll hold off further into the future. They're not primarily a desktop company. Besides, they're going for stability and X is about as mature as Wayland is not.
Wayland doesn't have any remote display functionality. The developers are discussing it, and any discussion about what protocol to use, is pointless until we know what protocol they're going to use. Perhaps SPICE will be of use. It works quite well for virtual machines. If that can be built into the display server, I think that could give some interesting results. But again... Only time will show.
I don't understand this hunger for X over HTML. It's going to be far less efficient and I really don't see the big benefit. except for the ubiquity of the web browser. But is that enough to make large concessions in efficiency and functionality? Well, the Telnet client is available on far more computers than any SSH client is. Should we switch back, just to increase the availability a little bit?
I don't think it's a good idea.
/Jo-Erlend
----- Original Message -----
On 2 March 2011 12:45, brian mullan <bmullan.mail@gmail.com> wrote: [snip] (Remote Desktop can be anything, from a video streaming service to screenshots)
URL: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/ThinVnc2.aspx
With Wayland in the future in several distro's (Red Hat and Ubuntu & derivatives) are technologies like this something that could be used in an x2go future?
Red Hat? I don't think it's likely that they'll switch to Wayland in the near future. Possibly during the next five years, but I think it's more likely they'll hold off further into the future. They're not primarily a desktop company. Besides, they're going for stability and X is about as mature as Wayland is not.
Wayland doesn't have any remote display functionality. The developers are discussing it, and any discussion about what protocol to use, is pointless until we know what protocol they're going to use. Perhaps SPICE will be of use. It works quite well for virtual machines. If that can be built into the display server, I think that could give some interesting results. But again... Only time will show.
I don't understand this hunger for X over HTML. It's going to be far less efficient and I really don't see the big benefit. except for the ubiquity of the web browser. But is that enough to make large concessions in efficiency and functionality? Well, the Telnet client is available on far more computers than any SSH client is. Should we switch back, just to increase the availability a little bit?
I don't think it's a good idea.
I believe the problem at hand is that there is only a Firefox plugin available. If a display could be delivered via HTML5 then it becomes truly portable. I could walk into a cyber-cafe (and yes am aware of security concerns) and connect to my work computer using FF, IE, CHROME, or any other HTML5 browser. That would make a very powerful business tool indeed.
Thanks, Phil
I believe the problem at hand is that there is only a Firefox plugin available. If a display could be delivered via HTML5 then it becomes truly portable. I could walk into a cyber-cafe (and yes am aware of security concerns) and connect to my work computer using FF, IE, CHROME, or any other HTML5 browser. That would make a very powerful business tool indeed. We've seen considerable (though yet unmeasured) performance improvement by removing the cygwin shim in Windows environments. I'd imagine adding
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 15:51 +0000, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote: <snip> the overhead of HTTP would significantly degrade performance (just a hunch). However, I thought Trolltech had released a Qt stsyle toolkit for web applications that was cross platform. That may be what Heinz and Alex are investigating as a multi-browser solution. If I recall correctly, this is one of their very high priorities - John
Hello John, hello list,
Am 02.03.2011 17:57, schrieb John A. Sullivan III:
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 15:51 +0000, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote: <snip> I'd imagine adding the overhead of HTTP would significantly degrade performance (just a hunch). However, I thought Trolltech had released a Qt stsyle toolkit for web applications that was cross platform. That may be what Heinz and Alex are investigating as a multi-browser solution. If I recall correctly, this is one of their very high priorities - John
During the redesign of x2goclient we've integrated all needed changes so that x2goclient can be used as plugin. We will start to add the needed files and configuration for a firefox plugin first. It will be possible to support chrome, konqueror and internet explorer later too. For all people evaluating the first plugin: the server.x2go file will be dropped. All configurations will be provided in the html file containing the plugin (We're aware that some of you really liked the seperated file architecture, but it won't be possible).
Some words about the future and the future of tomorrow:
IN MY EYES...
...in the next years more and more commodities/appliances/devices will be introduced and there will be a decreasing number of compatible platforms. An increasing number will be "bricked by design" depended to a censored store so the only generic runtime environment will be a web browser. Again and again people are asking for an ApplePad client, already knowing about our (or better: apples) problems to offer it reliable. So yes - it is a good idea to have an eye on that topic and we do so. There are really some interesting "ajax" VNC implementations on the net, but at the moment, only capturing protocols can be adopted. Some day in the future it will turn out, that the bloated javascript widget libraries can't be adopted or maintained to all plattforms. Even if you try hard - applications published this way will look different on different devices and can be easily destroyed by browser modifications. And don't forget about security issues (javascript links wont show you their target server in the status bar if it is a javascript function). So the canvas element and the webgl canvas will/can become more and more popular. Maybe the rendering capabilities will become sufficient enough to become a real alternative to a framebuffer.
But at the moment XOrg is a very good base as it offers caching features, local device support as it was build to offer native network transparency.
Regards,
Heinz
Jo-Erlend
Kristian Høgsberg (krh), a software engineer who works on the Linux graphics stack, started Wayland as a Red Hat project in 2008, while also working for Red Hat on X.
Anyway, I wasn't thinking of a browser as the 'only' client but it could become more useful in the future with tablets or mobile.
and... you are right saying "except for the ubiquity of the web browser". But I've not looked for html 5 video performance information and I'm probably not technical enough to determine if or what kind of hit it would cause versus a native client.
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 16:36 +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
On 2 March 2011 12:45, brian mullan <bmullan.mail@gmail.com> wrote: [snip] (Remote Desktop can be anything, from a video streaming service to screenshots)
URL: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/ThinVnc2.aspx
With Wayland in the future in several distro's (Red Hat and Ubuntu & derivatives) are technologies like this something that could be used in an x2go future? <snip> Wayland doesn't have any remote display functionality. The developers are discussing it, and any discussion about what protocol to use, is pointless until we know what protocol they're going to use. Perhaps SPICE will be of use. It works quite well for virtual machines. If that can be built into the display server, I think that could give some interesting results. But again... Only time will show. <snip> Unless it has changed in the last couple of years, SPICE is an excellent LAN protocol but a lousy WAN protocol - John
John
I tried Spice on Ubuntu and it does work pretty well and it is under heavy development but the rub for me was that it required a separate vm for each user's remote desktop.
So I didn't see any way to use it on a server that is itself virtualized in a cloud as I don't think there is anything like nested virtualization (yet).
Because of that and because Red Hat is doing alot of work toward cloud and vdi that they also will be looking for any new ideas that come out.
-
--[ UxBoD ]-- -
brian mullan -
contact＠gmli.fr -
Heinz-M. Graesing -
Jo-Erlend Schinstad -
John A. Sullivan III -
Mike Gabriel