Hi list,
I have been "playing" with x2go for a while and it looks very promising things - maybe someone here on this list could provide some information?
- a worthy successor to Nomachine NX - though I am unsure about a few
My questions are:
With the recent announcement of Nomachine going closed source, what does the future of x2go look like? 1a) As far as I understand, x2go uses parts of the GPL'ed Nomachine code, which will remain available in its current state due to the GPL, but will not be maintained by Nomachine any more. Are the x2go developers willing - and able - to maintain this part of the code, in case it requires maintenance and / or security patches? 1b) Or are you going to do a re-write of the Nomachine code currently in use? 1c) FreeNX seems to be a dying project (correct me if I'm wrong), since their lead developer Fabian Franz has left the project (or at least became inactive) quite a while ago - There are no Debian packages available any more, the latest Ubuntu packages are, umm, "flaky", and there hasn't been a new upstream release from the FreeNX team in a few years, unless I'm totally mistaken. From what I found out about x2go, the guy in the lead is Heinz-M. Graesing, who is working full-time as a system administrator and maintaining x2go purely in his spare time (again, correct me if I'm wrong). I would hate to see x2go going the FreeNX route once something happens to Heinz that leaves him unable to maintain the project. So I was wondering if there is a sufficient amount of other people backing the project that the loss of the lead developer (be it due to increased workload at his day job, health issues, or simply loss of interest) can be dealt with, should the situation arise? If that isn't the case right now, I would like to suggest making plans for it asap - the best time to install a fire escape ladder is before the house has a chance to start burning. ;-)
I read that Univention is using x2go for their desktop virtualization (see <http://wiki.univention.de/index.php?title=UCS_Desktop_Virtualization_Services>). Are they active supporters of x2go (i.e. donating money or manpower to the project)? (I ask because I'm hoping that a company planning a large-scale commerial deployment like Univention seems to be doing would have an interest in the x2go project staying alive and expanding.)
I heard of legal issues regarding the project name and some other stuff. That was back in December. Since the project is still named x2go, and Univention is openly using this name, I was wondering if these issues have been resolved?
Browsing the list archive, I saw that you are planning to provide packages for sid and wheezy via the official Debian repositories - I understand that it is too late to add packages for squeeze to the official Debian repositories, now that squeeze has been released, but will you provide packages for squeeze via your own repository? Currently it only shows packages for lenny (regarding Debian; I'm aware that you are providing packages for other Debian-based Distros as well).
I understand that you need some sort of full-screen application (similar to xdm/kdm/gdm) when running in thin client mode, and that this is why the current x2go client looks the way it looks, but I would really like to see a client that doesn't take up as much screen space, especially on Windows. Would it be possible to add an option for a "smaller" login window, similar to the one used by the current NX client: Provide text entry fields for username and password, and a drop-down list for the session name; when a session name is given on the command line, only show username and password fields; when the session file was stored with a password, directly start the login process?
(The reason why I'm asking for this is that I see a use case where x2go is used in rootless mode to allow access to single applications, and the big fullscreen thingie is kind of annoying to the users that are currently used to the NX client.)
Regarding question 5, I cannot provide patches myself, as I am not a coder, but I would be willing to make a financial contribution either to the x2go project, if it is possible for them to accept such contributions, or to the coder providing the necessary patches (as long as the price quote seems reasonable and affordable to me) - if that helps motivate you to code. ;-)
- Is there any way to get sound working (especially in rootless mode, say, for Flash-based websites displayed in a remote Firefox/Iceweasel window) with Debian lenny or squeeze on the server side, and Windows on the client side? I've seen a few messages concerning sound issues in the list archives, but I'm not sure if I made a mistake during my test installation or if there is a general problem and I can stop banging my head against the wall until the developers declare that the issue is fixed.
Kind Regards, Stefan Baur
PS: I really like the idea of how you deal with printing, as opposed to the Nomachine approach - I had planned to implement something similar before, when I hadn't heard of x2go and was stuck with Nomachine, but failed due to my lack of coding skills and time.
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 13:55 +0100, Stefan Baur wrote: <snip>
- Is there any way to get sound working (especially in rootless mode, say, for Flash-based websites displayed in a remote Firefox/Iceweasel window) with Debian lenny or squeeze on the server side, and Windows on the client side? I've seen a few messages concerning sound issues in the list archives, but I'm not sure if I made a mistake during my test installation or if there is a general problem and I can stop banging my head against the wall until the developers declare that the issue is fixed. <snip> Sound is working nicely for us in Windows out of the box. We did need to use the Squeeze pulseaudio packages on the server side - John
Hi John,
you wrote:
- Is there any way to get sound working (especially in rootless mode, say, for Flash-based websites displayed in a remote Firefox/Iceweasel window) with Debian lenny or squeeze on the server side, and Windows on the client side? I've seen a few messages concerning sound issues in the list archives, but I'm not sure if I made a mistake during my test installation or if there is a general problem and I can stop banging my head against the wall until the developers declare that the issue is fixed. <snip> Sound is working nicely for us in Windows out of the box. We did need to use the Squeeze pulseaudio packages on the server side - John
I'm running Sqeeze as my test system, tried both esound and pulseaudio, but I have no sound when playing youtube videos in a rootless Iceweasel (Firefox) window.
No full Gnome or KDE desktop environment installed, so not sure if it would work with a fullscreen session.
Client: X2Go Client 3.01-18, Windows 7 Home Premium
Any ideas?
Kind Regards, Stefan Baur
Hi Stefan,
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 16:49:00 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
Sound is working nicely for us in Windows out of the box. We did need to use the Squeeze pulseaudio packages on the server side - John
I'm running Sqeeze as my test system, tried both esound and
pulseaudio, but I have no sound when playing youtube videos in a
rootless Iceweasel (Firefox) window.No full Gnome or KDE desktop environment installed, so not sure if
it would work with a fullscreen session.Client: X2Go Client 3.01-18, Windows 7 Home Premium
Someone on the list wrote about audio problems with 3.01-18 that
haven't been there in 3.01-17. But, I am not sure about this...
Please make sure that pulseaudio is running and that the
module-native-protocol-tcp is activated (allow network access to
pulseaudio).
Easiest way to configure PulseAudio modules is using the paprefs
utility (on the X2go server, as the user who wants to connect to X2go).
Greets, Mike
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Please make sure that pulseaudio is running and that the
module-native-protocol-tcp is activated (allow network access to
pulseaudio).Easiest way to configure PulseAudio modules is using the paprefs
utility (on the X2go server, as the user who wants to connect to
X2go).
Sorry, I got things mixed up... this is for Linux as a client...
However, on the server you could check if you have an env variable
named $PULSE_CLIENTCONFIG and then you could ćheck the file where it
points at and check its contents...
Greets, Mike
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Hi Mike,
you wrote:
Sorry, I got things mixed up... this is for Linux as a client...
However, on the server you could check if you have an env variable named $PULSE_CLIENTCONFIG and then you could ćheck the file where it points at and check its contents... Hmm, it points to
/home/USERNAMEHERE/.x2go/C-USERNAMEHERE-50-1299082964_stRTERMINAL_dp32/.pulse-client.conf
and contains
default-server=localhost:30002 cookie-file=.x2go/C-USERNAMEHERE-50-1299082964_stRTERMINAL_dp32/.pulse-cookie
I decided to start iceweasel from the xterm window I used to check the settings you asked for, and when trying to access a youtube video, I see these messages scrolling by:
ALSA lib confmisc.c:392:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:1251:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib conf.c:4649:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib pcm.c:2190:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card ALSA lib confmisc.c:768:(parse_card) cannot find card '0' ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_card_driver returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:392:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:1251:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib conf.c:4649:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib pcm.c:2190:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card
I'm a bit surprised to see ALSA references, when I'm trying to use pulseaudio. Do I need some kind of wrapper script or environment variable to make iceweasel use pulseaudio?
Kind Regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan,
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 17:32:02 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
ALSA lib confmisc.c:392:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:1251:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib conf.c:4649:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: Datei oder
Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib pcm.c:2190:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card ALSA lib confmisc.c:768:(parse_card) cannot find card '0' ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function
snd_func_card_driver returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht
gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:392:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:1251:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib conf.c:4649:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: Datei oder
Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib pcm.c:2190:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card
This hints that firefox is not using PulseAudio. Maybe this
documentation helps a bit...
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio
Greets, Mike
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On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 17:38 +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote:
Hi Stefan,
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 17:32:02 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
ALSA lib confmisc.c:392:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:1251:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib conf.c:4649:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: Datei oder
Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib pcm.c:2190:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card ALSA lib confmisc.c:768:(parse_card) cannot find card '0' ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function
snd_func_card_driver returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht
gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:392:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib confmisc.c:1251:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name ALSA lib conf.c:4170:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer
returned error: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib conf.c:4649:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: Datei oder
Verzeichnis nicht gefunden ALSA lib pcm.c:2190:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for cardThis hints that firefox is not using PulseAudio. Maybe this
documentation helps a bit... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio
<snip> I'll dig a little deeper for you if the information in this email does not help. A couple of items:
If you are testing only with Firefox, you do need to edit the /etc/firefox/firefoxrc file:
# which /dev/dsp wrapper to use ICEWEASEL_DSP="esddsp" #ICEWEASEL_DSP="padsp"
padsp does work in Squeeze (I believe it caused a segfault in Lenny). We still use esddsp because our Trinity desktops fail with padsp and we haven't taken time to troubleshoot it.
If you are using very recent versions of the X2Go client, viz., those which use libssh, you may need to manually create a .ssh directory. I forget exactly where it is needed but there should be something in the mail list archives from Phil (uxbod) about this issue. Not having that causes the reverse ssh connections to fail. Hope that helps - John
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 17:53:15 CET "John A. Sullivan III" wrote:
If you are using very recent versions of the X2Go client, viz., those which use libssh, you may need to manually create a .ssh directory. I forget exactly where it is needed but there should be something in the mail list archives from Phil (uxbod) about this issue. Not having that causes the reverse ssh connections to fail. Hope that helps - John
It's needed here: ~/<username>/.ssh if I recall it correctly, that is
on Windows:
C:\\Dokumente und Einstellungen\\<username>\\.ssh
Greets, Mike
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Hi John,
you wrote:
If you are testing only with Firefox, you do need to edit the /etc/firefox/firefoxrc file:
# which /dev/dsp wrapper to use ICEWEASEL_DSP="esddsp" #ICEWEASEL_DSP="padsp" Dreck! That thing said "none".
Using "esddsp", I got the same lock-ups and errors:
ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card ALSA lib pulse.c:229:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Zeitüberschreitung
But with "padsp", it works! Yay!
The /etc/asound.conf file (as described on the ubuntu wiki page) is required, though.
Thank you!
Kind Regards, Stefan
Hi Mike,
I tried to follow the suggestions on
This hints that firefox is not using PulseAudio. Maybe this documentation helps a bit... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio
but as I'm using Debian Squeeze and not Ubuntu, it is more of a trial and error experience.
I did three things: a) Install some more pulseaudio-related packages, among them "paman", which confirms that I have a working pulseaudio connection between host and client, from what I can tell b) Create the /etc/asound.conf file as described on the wiki.ubuntu.com page c) Run paplay somefile.wav to confirm that sound works on the commandline - it does.
Now, when I try to run a Youtube video in Iceweasel, it freezes and I see the following stuff on the command line:
ALSA lib pulse.c:229:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Zeitüberschreitung
ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1401:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card
Next up: Trying to follow John A. Sullivan III's reply.
Kind Regards, Stefan
I'm running Sqeeze as my test system, tried both esound and pulseaudio, but I have no sound when playing youtube videos in a rootless Iceweasel (Firefox) window.
No full Gnome or KDE desktop environment installed, so not sure if it would work with a fullscreen session.
Client: X2Go Client 3.01-18, Windows 7 Home Premium
Any ideas?
Try the 3.01-13 windows client. I also tried the 3.01-18 windows client (with built-in X-server, not vcxsrv), and sound was broken. But sound works in -13. In -18, sound was so broken that it was causing freezes when some applications tried to pay sound. So I guess -18 is now only 1 for 3 for sound -- worked for Sullivan, failed for Williams and Baur.
Hi John,
Try the 3.01-13 windows client. I also tried the 3.01-18 windows client (with built-in X-server, not vcxsrv), and sound was broken. But sound works in -13. In -18, sound was so broken that it was causing freezes when some applications tried to pay sound. So I guess -18 is now only 1 for 3 for sound -- worked for Sullivan, failed for Williams and Baur. Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>,
you wrote: pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
-Stefan
On 2011-03-03 10:15, Stefan Baur wrote:
Hi John,
Try the 3.01-13 windows client. I also tried the 3.01-18 windows client (with built-in X-server, not vcxsrv), and sound was broken. But sound works in -13. In -18, sound was so broken that it was causing freezes when some applications tried to pay sound. So I guess -18 is now only 1 for 3 for sound -- worked for Sullivan, failed for Williams and Baur. Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>,
you wrote: pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
-Stefan
Hi Stefen, John, etc,
I didn't really follow this topic, but would you mind adding (creating) it to the FAQ: http://wiki.x2go.org/faq
Cheers Morty
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Hi Morty,
you wrote:
I didn't really follow this topic, but would you mind adding (creating) it to the FAQ: http://wiki.x2go.org/faq
Being a list member for just about a day, and not even having a wiki account yet, I'll leave that to the veteran x2go listmembers - I don't want to break anything (Until a moment ago, I got a "page does not exist" when I clicked on your link; now I'm getting an empty wiki page saying nothing but "FAQ"). Whoever adds the entry, feel free to quote from my messages, though.
-Stefan
Am 03.03.2011 10:31, schrieb Stefan Baur:
Being a list member for just about a day, and not even having a wiki account yet, I'll leave that to the veteran x2go listmembers - I don't want to break anything (Until a moment ago, I got a "page does not exist" when I clicked on your link; now I'm getting an empty wiki page saying nothing but "FAQ"). Whoever adds the entry, feel free to quote from my messages, though.
That was me, thinking it might be reasonable to at least add a title. And don't worry about braking things. It can't be much worse then having no information or pointers. ;)
Cheers Morty
-- Dipl.-Ing. Moritz 'Morty' Struebe (Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter) Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4 (Verteilte Systeme und Betriebssysteme) Friedrich-Alexander-Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg Martensstr. 1 91058 Erlangen
Tel : +49 9131 85-25419 Fax : +49 9131 85-28732 eMail : struebe@informatik.uni-erlangen.de WWW : http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~morty
Hi Stefan,
On Do 03 Mär 2011 10:31:48 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
Being a list member for just about a day, and not even having a wiki
account yet, I'll leave that to the veteran x2go listmembers - I
don't want to break anything (Until a moment ago, I got a "page does
not exist" when I clicked on your link; now I'm getting an empty
wiki page saying nothing but "FAQ"). Whoever adds the entry, feel
free to quote from my messages, though.
What I just thought when reading this mail: There is also support
needed in the field of documenting X2go. I guess, I can speak for
Heinz in this respect also, that we are happy about everybody who
contributes to our Wiki.
Maybe we could divert the Wiki changelog mails to
x2go-commits@lists.berlios.de
So that people who want can keep track about wiki changes and also
proof read the content changes.
@Stefan: if you are interested in X2go collaboration at some point
(which might be a couple of weeks from now or even tonight), please
apply for a Wiki login on wiki.x2go.org and feel free to contribute.
The Wiki has a back-log, so do not worry about breaking things.
@Heinz: correct me, if you disagree with me on this.
Best, Mike
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Hi Mike,
you wrote:
@Stefan: if you are interested in X2go collaboration at some point (which might be a couple of weeks from now or even tonight), please apply for a Wiki login on wiki.x2go.org and feel free to contribute. The Wiki has a back-log, so do not worry about breaking things. I'll look into applying for a Wiki login soon, and will contribute as time permits. No promises - but I can see myself acting as a proofreader and adding what little documentation I can provide myself.
-Stefan
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>, pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured?
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken.
Hi John,
you wrote:
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured? *Mis*configured is a little too harsh - it was simply *not* configured, i.e. with a stock Debian Squeeze install, it will not work out of the box.
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. I started my experiments with -18, so I can't say if -13 would have made a difference. Sorry.
-Stefan
Hi all,
On Do 03 Mär 2011 10:26:07 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured? *Mis*configured is a little too harsh - it was simply *not*
configured, i.e. with a stock Debian Squeeze install, it will not
work out of the box.Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. I started my experiments with -18, so I can't say if -13 would have
made a difference. Sorry.
May I remind people that Stefan posted earlier that he started Firefox
in rootless mode (that is without a desktop in the back). Maybe this
is imported to trace down the issue of what went really wrong with
audio+firefox+flash.
Hope, I remember that correctly, Mike
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On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 01:22 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>, pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured?
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. <snip> That might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory. That will need to be added to the installer whenever we finalize it - John
Hi John,
you wrote:
/ Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when />/> using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled />>/ 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. /<snip> That might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory. That will need to be added to the installer whenever we finalize it - John
Indeed - since I had the NXclient installed, I already had a .ssh directory. So if x2goclient 3.01-18 fails to create this directory, I wasn't affected by this bug.
-Stefan
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:40 AM, John A. Sullivan III <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 01:22 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>, pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured?
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. <snip> That might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory. That will need to be added to the installer whenever we finalize it - John
What might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory? Broken sound???
I have the .ssh directory that I created (months ago) in my home directory, and it was still there when I ran 3.01-18.
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 08:46 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:40 AM, John A. Sullivan III <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 01:22 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>, pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured?
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. <snip> That might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory. That will need to be added to the installer whenever we finalize it - John
What might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory? Broken sound???
I have the .ssh directory that I created (months ago) in my home directory, and it was still there when I ran 3.01-18. <snip> Yes. Without it, libssh will fail to place necessary files (not sure if it is known_hosts or authorized_keys) and thus cannot establish the ssh connections needed to bring sound, file sharing, and print back to the local system - John
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:05 AM, John A. Sullivan III <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 08:46 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:40 AM, John A. Sullivan III <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 01:22 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>, pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured?
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. <snip> That might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory. That will need to be added to the installer whenever we finalize it - John
What might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory? Broken sound???
I have the .ssh directory that I created (months ago) in my home directory, and it was still there when I ran 3.01-18. <snip> Yes. Without it, libssh will fail to place necessary files (not sure if it is known_hosts or authorized_keys) and thus cannot establish the ssh connections needed to bring sound, file sharing, and print back to the local system - John
I'm still not following your reasoning. Why would you suggest that is the cause of broken sound on 3.01-18, but working sound on 3.01-13, even if you did not know that I do have an .ssh directory? Why would 3.01-13 sound work without a .ssh directory?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:05 AM, John A. Sullivan III <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 08:46 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:40 AM, John A. Sullivan III <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 01:22 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Um, no. As posted here <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/x2go-dev/2011-March/001837.html>, pulseaudio works after adding asound.conf and changing /etc/icewesel/iceweaselrc on the host.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you mean your x2go server was misconfigured?
Because I did not have to make any server configuration changes when using 3.01-13 client for working sound. Then when I uninstalled 3.01-13 and installed 3.01-18, sound was broken. <snip> That might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory. That will need to be added to the installer whenever we finalize it - John
What might be because of the missing ~/.ssh directory? Broken sound???
I have the .ssh directory that I created (months ago) in my home directory, and it was still there when I ran 3.01-18. <snip> Yes. Without it, libssh will fail to place necessary files (not sure if it is known_hosts or authorized_keys) and thus cannot establish the ssh connections needed to bring sound, file sharing, and print back to the local system - John
I'm still not following your reasoning. Why would you suggest that is the cause of broken sound on 3.01-18, but working sound on 3.01-13, even if you did not know that I do have an .ssh directory? Why would 3.01-13 sound work without a .ssh directory? 3.01-13 did not use libssh but rather cygwin for ssh. Thus, the ~/.ssh
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 09:08 -0800, John Williams wrote: directory was not necessary - John
Am Donnerstag, 3. März 2011, 18:38:30 schrieb John A. Sullivan III:
3.01-13 did not use libssh but rather cygwin for ssh. Thus, the ~/.ssh directory was not necessary - John
At times of 3.01-13 it was somewhere inside the .x2go folder... (if I recall it correctly...).
Mike
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On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Mike Gabriel <mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 3. März 2011, 18:38:30 schrieb John A. Sullivan III:
3.01-13 did not use libssh but rather cygwin for ssh. Thus, the ~/.ssh directory was not necessary - John
At times of 3.01-13 it was somewhere inside the .x2go folder... (if I recall it correctly...).
When I first installed the x2go client on a windows machine, I had to create the .ssh folder myself, in my home directory -- if I did not, there was an error during the install. And I first installed a version even earlier than 3.01-13. Did the ~/.ssh requirement change for 3.01-13, and then change back after 3.01-13???
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 11:57 -0800, John Williams wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Mike Gabriel <mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 3. März 2011, 18:38:30 schrieb John A. Sullivan III:
3.01-13 did not use libssh but rather cygwin for ssh. Thus, the ~/.ssh directory was not necessary - John
At times of 3.01-13 it was somewhere inside the .x2go folder... (if I recall it correctly...).
When I first installed the x2go client on a windows machine, I had to create the .ssh folder myself, in my home directory -- if I did not, there was an error during the install. And I first installed a version even earlier than 3.01-13. Did the ~/.ssh requirement change for 3.01-13, and then change back after 3.01-13??? <snip> I'm not sure but I believe 3.01-14 was the first version to use libssh - John
Hi Stefan,
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 13:55:03 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
I have been "playing" with x2go for a while and it looks very
promising - a worthy successor to Nomachine NX - though I am unsure
about a few things - maybe someone here on this list could provide
some information?
I will try to provide as much information as I have, primarily to take
workload off of Heinz and Alex (the other core developer). They will
definitely supplement aspects where and if needed.
- With the recent announcement of Nomachine going closed source,
what does the future of x2go look like?
I will not answer this question directly as I know from a phone call
(yesterday) that Heinz plans to post some information on future
development of X2go on this list. So stay tuned for this.
1a) As far as I understand, x2go uses parts of the GPL'ed Nomachine
code, which will remain available in its current state due to the
GPL, but will not be maintained by Nomachine any more. Are the x2go
developers willing - and able - to maintain this part of the code,
in case it requires maintenance and / or security patches?
As far as I currently know, X2go's code base for NX3 components will
become the upstream source for Debian packages in the very near
future. As far as I can tell, there has come up quite some man power
in the project that can handle XServer code (i.e. Phil supporting the
VcXsrv developer with bugfixes and debugging) as well as NX code (esp.
Alex). Lately, there has also been offer of support from people from
the university of Erlangen. More on that will be in Heinz mail -
probably already tonight.
1b) Or are you going to do a re-write of the Nomachine code currently in use?
Of course there is a collection of ideas on NX alternatives. However,
this indeed is a question of man power and competence. The main
improvement X2go will need is around video streaming (MPEG etc.,
Flash). So a rewrite should include that. But as far as I know, the
current strategy is to stay with NX3 (as I said: out of lack of man
power).
1c) FreeNX seems to be a dying project (correct me if I'm wrong),
since their lead developer Fabian Franz has left the project (or at
least became inactive) quite a while ago - There are no Debian
packages available any more, the latest Ubuntu packages are, umm,
"flaky", and there hasn't been a new upstream release from the
FreeNX team in a few years, unless I'm totally mistaken. From what I found out about x2go, the guy in the lead is Heinz-M.
Graesing, who is working full-time as a system administrator and
maintaining x2go purely in his spare time (again, correct me if I'm
wrong). I would hate to see x2go going the FreeNX route once
something happens to Heinz that leaves him unable to maintain the
project. So I was wondering if there is a sufficient amount of other
people backing the project that the loss of the lead developer (be
it due to increased workload at his day job, health issues, or
simply loss of interest) can be dealt with, should the situation
arise? If that isn't the case right now, I would like to suggest
making plans for it asap - the best time to install a fire escape
ladder is before the house has a chance to start burning. ;-)
Thanks for addressing this issue. We are currently trying to share the
work load on more than two shoulders. The two main shoulders are Heinz
and Alex (Oleksandr Shneyder), both living and working southern Germany.
The sharing looks like this:
o Project coordination (Heinz, Alex)
o Core upstream development (Heinz, Alex)
o Code (C++, Perl etc.) development heavily supported by Uni
Erlangen (Morty,
Reinhart, Alexander)
o XServer troubles -> Phil, John (THANKS)
o Git/Bugtracker -> Mike
o Python X2go API / PyHoca-GUI -> Mike (currently sponsored by LinDix NL)
o Debian packaging -> moves to Collab-Maint (Team: Jonas Smedegaard, Mike
Gabriel)
o Ubuntu packaging -> Uni Erlangen (Reinhart)
o other packaging?
The code base is currently put into a sustainable and managable form
(Git: git.x2go.org), the release management will be switched to a Git
based release management.
The server code is relatively easy to understand and maintain. It's
mostly build up from scripts that wrap around helper applications,
some of these helper apps are standard Linux apps (ssh, pulseaudio,
sftp sub-system), some are X2go specific (as currently a derivative of
nxagent, called x2goagent).
The x2goclient-qt however is a Qt4 client written in C++ (or C?). The
latest great change was a full rewrite to usage of libssh (as opposed
to calling ssh child processes). This work is mainly committed by
Heinz and Alex.
The NX code is also written in C (or C++?). For this you need C/C++
coding abilities and also an insight into XServer technology. Man
power is welcome here, AFAIK.
Quite recent is my Python implementation of an X2go client, called
PyHoca. PyHoca brings with it a Python X2go(Client) API, a pyhoca-cli
(command line client, mostly for demo purpose) and a pyhoca-gui
(wxPython systray icon, basically working menu-based like GNOME's
network manager).
There will also be a complete rewrite of the X2go administration
tools. In Zweibrücken on Debian Edu conference Heinz has presented a
first alpha version of these and as far as I know they have already
advanced quite a bit with the code (he said something like... it's
finished for testing...).
Another plan is to put the i18n files of all subprojects together into
one x2go-i18n project in Git. Thus, translators of the software will
just have one location for the whole project to look after.
- I read that Univention is using x2go for their desktop
virtualization (see
<http://wiki.univention.de/index.php?title=UCS_Desktop_Virtualization_Services>). Are they active supporters of x2go (i.e. donating money or manpower to the
project)? (I ask because I'm hoping that a company planning a large-scale
commerial deployment like Univention seems to be doing would have an
interest in the x2go project staying alive and expanding.)
This is interesting... I have been on Univention's partner summit in
Feb this year and they told me about those plans. As I know that they
are heavily Pythonian I talked to the main developer (his name was als
Stefan, I think) about a Python API being available for X2go and left
my contact details. I have heard from them again, so far...
Interesting indeed.
As far as I know Univention does not directly re-inject code into the
OSS community (also a lack of man power). They publish under AGPL,
though, but as an OSS upstream developer you have to pick the ideas
and fixes out of there tarballs (not public VCS as far as I know).
Thus, I estimate that they will actually fork X2go for the UCS server
and maintain there own X2go'ish system (just a guess).
Maybe, if there is someone from Univention listening to this list you
could write some of the strategies you follow concerning X2go.
- I heard of legal issues regarding the project name and some other
stuff. That was back in December. Since the project is still named
x2go, and Univention is openly using this name, I was wondering if
these issues have been resolved?
The current status on this has to be answered by Heinz.
- Browsing the list archive, I saw that you are planning to provide
packages for sid and wheezy via the official Debian repositories - I
understand that it is too late to add packages for squeeze to the
official Debian repositories, now that squeeze has been released,
but will you provide packages for squeeze via your own repository?
Currently it only shows packages for lenny (regarding Debian; I'm
aware that you are providing packages for other Debian-based Distros
as well).
You currently can install the lenny packages on ,,all'' .deb based
Debian and Ubuntu versions. Beginning with Squeeze there are some
complaints about missing LSB definitions in the x2goserver init
script, but that will also be fixed soon and you can ignore them.
And yes: the plan is to provide .deb packages for Debian squeeze and
also backports for Debian lenny if feasible in the project's repository.
Additionally, the Ubuntu packaging will soon be covered fully by Uni
Erlangen, but more on that will be readable in Heinz's mail within the
next days.
- I understand that you need some sort of full-screen application
(similar to xdm/kdm/gdm) when running in thin client mode, and that
this is why the current x2go client looks the way it looks, but I
would really like to see a client that doesn't take up as much
screen space, especially on Windows. Would it be possible to add an option for a "smaller" login window,
similar to the one used by the current NX client: Provide text entry fields for username and password, and a drop-down
list for the session name; when a session name is given on the
command line, only show username and password fields; when the
session file was stored with a password, directly start the login
process?
Have you taken a look at PyHoca-GUI? That could be an alternative for
you then...
deb http://packages.das-netzwerkteam.de/debian <codename> main
or
deb http://packages.das-netzwerkteam.de/ubuntu <codename> main
=>
$ apt-get update $ apt-get install pyhoca-gui
(The reason why I'm asking for this is that I see a use case where
x2go is used in rootless mode to allow access to single
applications, and the big fullscreen thingie is kind of annoying to
the users that are currently used to the NX client.)
I plan to write an embedded menu extension for PyHoca-GUI (client
retrieves a menu tree from the server and allows to start remote
rootless applications from the GUI's menu). Some similar setup
(rootless provision of remote applications) is the current SAS
strategy of the PyHoca-GUI's main sponsor (Dick Kniep from LinDix in
the Netherlands).
Regarding question 5, I cannot provide patches myself, as I am not a
coder, but I would be willing to make a financial contribution
either to the x2go project, if it is possible for them to accept
such contributions, or to the coder providing the necessary patches
(as long as the price quote seems reasonable and affordable to me) -
if that helps motivate you to code. ;-)
So far, there has been a donation model for X2go. In several private
talks with Heinz I have suggested moving this donation model to a much
clearer contracting model. If you want a feature and if it is generic
enough for the X2go community, then you can contract Heinz, Alex, Mike
(Python) and in the future possibly others. If the feature is not
generic enough it is still possible to contract people, but the code
will not be merged into X2go mainstream projects (which should,
however, be the focus of contracting code developers).
I can definitely only speak for me at this point, and my disposition
is: if you need features for the Python X2go API or PyHoca-GUI then
you can of course contract me for that.
- Is there any way to get sound working (especially in rootless
mode, say, for Flash-based websites displayed in a remote
Firefox/Iceweasel window) with Debian lenny or squeeze on the server
side, and Windows on the client side? I've seen a few messages
concerning sound issues in the list archives, but I'm not sure if I
made a mistake during my test installation or if there is a general
problem and I can stop banging my head against the wall until the
developers declare that the issue is fixed.
This question has been answered by John already.
Greets, Mike
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Hi Mike,
[lots of important information]
I'm very happy that you took the time to write such an extensive reply. Most of it was indeed what I had hoped to read, for the remainder I will eagerly await Heinz's e-mail/post.
Just a few odd comments that came to my mind after reading your reply: A lot of what you wrote should find its way into the FAQ or at least some other place on the project homepage. That way, people know whom to contact for which aspect (re: work load sharing), and also where more manpower is needed (non-Ubuntu packaging, NX code re-write,...).
This is interesting... I have been on Univention's partner summit in Feb this year and they told me about those plans. As I know that they are heavily Pythonian I talked to the main developer (his name was als Stefan, I think) about a Python API being available for X2go and left my contact details. I have heard from them again, so far... Interesting indeed. Wasn't me :-D I don't work for them. Since you left your contact
Regarding Univention, you wrote: details, maybe you could try to contact them and try to find out? After all, if you call/e-mail them, your name might ring some bells there. If there still are legal issues regarding the x2go name, then Univention might be in for some brown stuff hitting the fan by publishing their solution and mentioning x2go - hope their legal team didn't mess that one up. Would hate seeing them drop their involvement just because of some legal fsck-up.
You mentioned PyHoca-GUI and provided some download and install instructions; this looks like it is Linux-only, though? The users I have in mind are using Windows on their client computers. Now, I know Python is available for Windows, too - so would it be possible for you to provide a Windows-based PyHoca-GUI, just like the regular client?
I happen to live in the south of Germany, too, though a little more to the west than Heinz and Alex, too bad that you are way up North, otherwise I would have suggested a "codefest" instead of regular payment, some time during summer - meeting in real life, working on the client until it looks the way I want it to look, and the barbecue in the evening is on me. ;-) I happen to own a nice outdoor location for that. ;-)
For me, it would be very important that the changes I suggested are accepted into the mainline code - I don't want to end up with a fork (that could turn into a RPITA, maintenance-wise. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt).
Kind Regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan,
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 17:17:58 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
You mentioned PyHoca-GUI and provided some download and install
instructions; this looks like it is Linux-only, though? The users I have in mind are using Windows on their client computers. Now, I know Python is available for Windows, too - so would it be
possible for you to provide a Windows-based PyHoca-GUI, just like
the regular client?
There also is indeed a Windows version of PyHoca-GUI...
http://code.x2go.org/gitweb?p=pyhoca-contrib.git;a=tree;f=win32-dist/install...
There is some XServer-related thing broken with the latest 0.0.30.1
version, so you might try one of the older ones provided... Esp. the
Windows code of PyHoca-GUI is still under development and always
reliable. However, it is there...
[ ... skipping the codefest invitation ;-) ... ]
:-)
For me, it would be very important that the changes I suggested are
accepted into the mainline code - I don't want to end up with a fork
(that could turn into a RPITA, maintenance-wise. Been there, done
that, got the t-shirt).
Maybe you test PyHoca-GUI, let us know your feature requests and we
will see... (???)
Greets, Mike
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On Mi 02 Mär 2011 17:29:37 CET Mike Gabriel wrote:
There is some XServer-related thing broken with the latest 0.0.30.1
version, so you might try one of the older ones provided... Esp. the
Windows code of PyHoca-GUI is still under development and always ^^^^^^
reliable. However, it is there... ^^^^^^^^
this unfortunately must be... ,,and _not_ (yet) always reliable...''
Greets, Mike
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Hi Stefan,
On Mi 02 Mär 2011 17:17:58 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
Just a few odd comments that came to my mind after reading your reply: A lot of what you wrote should find its way into the FAQ or at least
some other place on the project homepage. That way, people know whom to contact for which aspect (re: work
load sharing), and also where more manpower is needed (non-Ubuntu
packaging, NX code re-write,...).
YEP, good point.
Regarding Univention, you wrote:
This is interesting... I have been on Univention's partner summit in Feb this year and they told me about those plans. As I know that they are heavily Pythonian I talked to the main developer (his name was als Stefan, I think) about a Python API being available for X2go and left my contact details. I have heard from them again, so far... Interesting indeed.
Wasn't me :-D I don't work for them. Since you left your contact
details, maybe you could try to contact them and try to find out?
After all, if you call/e-mail them, your name might ring some bells
there.
Good point, as well...
If there still are legal issues regarding the x2go name, then
Univention might be in for some brown stuff hitting the fan by
publishing their solution and mentioning x2go - hope their legal
team didn't mess that one up. Would hate seeing them drop their
involvement just because of some legal fsck-up.
To dive into this (or possibly not...) Heinz needs to update us (if
possible and sensible).
Greets, Mike
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On Wed, Mar 02, 2011 at 16:47:35 (CET), Mike Gabriel wrote:
Additionally, the Ubuntu packaging will soon be covered fully by Uni Erlangen, but more on that will be readable in Heinz's mail within the next days.
Clarifications:
a) my name is spelled 'Reinhard'
b) I don't "do" the ubuntu packaging, nor will "Uni Erlangen" do something what you state. I'm both a Debian Developer and Ubuntu Developer and think the work is better spent on having the package first in Debian proper, as Ubuntu basically has similar requirements and there is an straight forward process that copies packages from Debian to Ubuntu. Since it's creation about 5 weeks ago, I'm the only one who has actually contributed something substantial to the 'official' Debian x2go packaging team: an almost ready x2goclient package suitable for inclusion into the main Debian archive:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-x2go-devel/2011-January/000000....
However, it has still neither found their way to the designated git branches in collab-maint on alioth.debian.org, nor to the Debian archive.
Moreover, I'm surprised (not to say irritated) that while Jonas welcomed me to the team, your mail (the one I'm replying to right now) clearly states otherwise.
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-x2go-devel/2011-February/000003...
c) As a proof of concept and development environment for our internal x2go test-deployment, I have built an integration archive that builds daily packages from the development branches at http://i4git.informatik.uni-erlangen.de. This is mainly for easily and quickly testing developments. Currently, it ships a working x2goserver, x2goclient and x2gognomebindings for ubuntu/lucid and ubuntu/natty.
https://launchpad.net/~siretart/+archive/x2go
I'd suggest to create a team PPA for the newly created x2go team in launchpad and move the packages there.
The packaging there (and the same BTW applies to the branches at code.x2go.org) is in no way "clean" and as such, not suitable for proper inclusion into neither Debian and Ubuntu. TBH, I think there is a considerable amount of cleanup work to be done (like, writing proper installation scripts in makefiles, etc.) before we can even consider packaging it properly.
-- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4
Hello, Reinhard!
Now, I obviously can't speak for Mike, but as an "innocent bystander", I didn't have the impression that Mike wanted to say that you are not welcome on the team. He simply gave an account of the x2go project state to the best of his knowledge.
I can see some bitterness and disappointment in your message, which seems to be partially caused by the fact that you feel no one else besides you has made substantial contributions to the Debian x2go packaging team, which, if it is true (I don't know how to check that, and will simply take your word for it), can be a frustrating experience. I've worked on projects where I was the lonesome cowboy or the last of the Mohicans or however you want to call it, and know the feeling, so I do have some sympathy for you there. ;-)
Also, you wrote:
However, it has still neither found their way to the designated git branches in collab-maint on alioth.debian.org, nor to the Debian archive. and I'd suggest to create a team PPA for the newly created x2go team in launchpad and move the packages there.
Again, I'm not a coder, so I can't jump in to help you directly - but maybe I can ask the proper questions to get this on the right track:
What, in your opinion, is needed to get going? What needs to be done? Which present list members could do it? Where do we currently lack resources that cannot be satisfied by list members (this should turn into a big "help wanted" on the home page)?
Kind Regards, Stefan
Hi all, hi Reinhard,
Am Donnerstag, 3. März 2011, 10:34:05 schrieb Reinhard Tartler:
On Wed, Mar 02, 2011 at 16:47:35 (CET), Mike Gabriel wrote:
a) my name is spelled 'Reinhard'
Sorry about the mispelling!!!
b) [...]
c) [...]
Today Reinhard and I had a long phone talk about personal as well as technical issues. There have been quite a couple of misunderstandings between Reinhard and me during the last weeks and I think we could clarify quite a few of them today.
We also discussed a lot about a good way of making the two Git's (i4git.informatik.uni-erlangen.de and git.x2go.org) compatible. Since today, this is definitely on its way.
During the next days I will work on git.x2go.org and make it compatible with the work lately performed by people from Uni Erlangen. So we are nearly (and nearly is indeed a very relative phrase) there...
Regards, Mike
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Hello Stefan,
Am 02.03.2011 13:55, schrieb Stefan Baur:
Hi list,
I have been "playing" with x2go for a while and it looks very promising things - maybe someone here on this list could provide some information?
- a worthy successor to Nomachine NX - though I am unsure about a few
Thank you for your commendation - I'll try to answer your questions.
My questions are:
- With the recent announcement of Nomachine going closed source, what does the future of x2go look like?
As far as I know all Open Source components (existing or build in future) will still be available on CD (if you ask them).
1a) As far as I understand, x2go uses parts of the GPL'ed Nomachine code, which will remain available in its current state due to the GPL, but will not be maintained by Nomachine any more. Are the x2go developers willing - and able - to maintain this part of the code, in case it requires maintenance and / or security patches? 1b) Or are you going to do a re-write of the Nomachine code currently in use?
The used used XOrg code isn't maintained since a long time. The only way to get this construction supportable would be porting the functionality as modules to a recent XOrg Version. We've been talking about this for a very long time now. This all should be possible, but would take a lot of time. It would be a decision about neglecting other parts of x2go for some time. As Mike already mentioned, it will be a good idea to collect some people to do this task.
I would suggest to discuss this topic after baikal (upcoming release) is released.
So I was wondering if there is a sufficient amount of other people backing the project that the loss of the lead developer (be it due to increased workload at his day job, health issues, or simply loss of interest) can be dealt with, should the situation arise? If that isn't the case right now, I would like to suggest making plans for it asap - the best time to install a fire escape ladder is before the house has a chance to start burning. ;-)
In the past we've been two people developing x2go and at the moment Alex and I ares still interested in x2go. But during the last year more and more people have been joined this list and we now have a usable python client. X2go uses a lot of generic linux based projects (fuse, udev, ssh, cups,...), which are maintained by themselves.
- I read that Univention is using x2go for their desktop virtualization (see <http://wiki.univention.de/index.php?title=UCS_Desktop_Virtualization_Services>). Are they active supporters of x2go (i.e. donating money or manpower to the project)? (I ask because I'm hoping that a company planning a large-scale commerial deployment like Univention seems to be doing would have an interest in the x2go project staying alive and expanding.)
I didn't even know that they are using x2go. There were some contacts in the past, but it was never mentioned that x2go would be a component of ucs.
- I heard of legal issues regarding the project name and some other stuff. That was back in December. Since the project is still named x2go, and Univention is openly using this name, I was wondering if these issues have been resolved?
Yes and no, there is still a person left who claims x2go as "werktitelschutz". A new name is the way to go if this problem can't be solved.
- Browsing the list archive, I saw that you are planning to provide packages for sid and wheezy via the official Debian repositories...
Mike answered this question before - all packaging topics will be discussed and announced on the packaging mailing list.
- I understand that you need some sort of full-screen application (similar to xdm/kdm/gdm) when running in thin client mode, and that this is why the current x2go client looks the way it looks, but I would really like to see a client that doesn't take up as much screen space, especially on Windows.
There are typically 3 Use Cases of x2goclient:
1.) You are sysop or supporter and you are required to have a lot of sessions preconfigured. X1go will offer you a interface with easy session management and search feature.
2.) You are a user of a device running the TCE (thin client environment). You'll need to have a display manager to log into your session.
3.) You are a desktop user and you only need one session configured. Often the sysop has configured x2goclient using the "hidden mode" in this case. This means, you only have an icon of the session/remote application and if you use this desktop symbol, the remote application will be started without showing x2goclient.
Would it be possible to add an option for a "smaller" login window, similar to the one used by the current NX client:
Yes it would be possible - but it is not on our list for the upcoming release. We already have been accepting to much features so baikal is delayed more than we've expected. As Mike has already introduced his solution: maybe pyhoca is an option.
when the session file was stored with a password, directly start the login process?
Maybe it is a better idea to work on a more usable solution for key authentication.
Regarding question 5, I cannot provide patches myself, as I am not a coder, but I would be willing to make a financial contribution either to the x2go project, if it is possible for them to accept such contributions, or to the coder providing the necessary patches (as long as the price quote seems reasonable and affordable to me) - if that helps motivate you to code. ;-)
It is very easy for us (I think I can speak for Mike too) to offer and accept "orders - especially if the result can be used as part of the mainstream distribution. Donations are somewhat critical, as they are not addressed to a supply of service or product (as we need to pay tax on the spend money).
Thank you for your mail and your questions. This way we've summarized a lot of things into one place.
Regards,
Heinz
Hej Stefan,
I just want to say:
WELL DONE!
Thank you for the accurate and carefully worded questions and thoughts
and informations about X2go!
It's always great when qualified people from "outside" ask questions
and tell their view -
now we have lots of informations summarized in a few mails and surely
new ideas rising in the X2go-community.
Angela
Zitat von "Heinz-M. Graesing" <x2go-dev@x2go.org>:
Hello Stefan,
Am 02.03.2011 13:55, schrieb Stefan Baur:
Hi list,
I have been "playing" with x2go for a while and it looks very promising things - maybe someone here on this list could provide some information?
- a worthy successor to Nomachine NX - though I am unsure about a few
Thank you for your commendation - I'll try to answer your questions.
My questions are:
- With the recent announcement of Nomachine going closed source, what does the future of x2go look like?
As far as I know all Open Source components (existing or build in future) will still be available on CD (if you ask them).
1a) As far as I understand, x2go uses parts of the GPL'ed Nomachine code, which will remain available in its current state due to the GPL, but will not be maintained by Nomachine any more. Are the x2go developers willing - and able - to maintain this part of the code, in case it requires maintenance and / or security patches? 1b) Or are you going to do a re-write of the Nomachine code currently in use?
The used used XOrg code isn't maintained since a long time. The only way to get this construction supportable would be porting the functionality as modules to a recent XOrg Version. We've been talking about this for a very long time now. This all should be possible, but would take a lot of time. It would be a decision about neglecting other parts of x2go for some time. As Mike already mentioned, it will be a good idea to collect some people to do this task.
I would suggest to discuss this topic after baikal (upcoming release) is released.
So I was wondering if there is a sufficient amount of other people backing the project that the loss of the lead developer (be it due to increased workload at his day job, health issues, or simply loss of interest) can be dealt with, should the situation arise? If that isn't the case right now, I would like to suggest making plans for it asap - the best time to install a fire escape ladder is before the house has a chance to start burning. ;-)
In the past we've been two people developing x2go and at the moment Alex and I ares still interested in x2go. But during the last year more and more people have been joined this list and we now have a usable python client. X2go uses a lot of generic linux based projects (fuse, udev, ssh, cups,...), which are maintained by themselves.
- I read that Univention is using x2go for their desktop virtualization (see <http://wiki.univention.de/index.php?title=UCS_Desktop_Virtualization_Services>). Are they active supporters of x2go (i.e. donating money or manpower to the project)? (I ask because I'm hoping that a company planning a large-scale commerial deployment like Univention seems to be doing would have an interest in the x2go project staying alive and expanding.)
I didn't even know that they are using x2go. There were some contacts in the past, but it was never mentioned that x2go would be a component of ucs.
- I heard of legal issues regarding the project name and some other stuff. That was back in December. Since the project is still named x2go, and Univention is openly using this name, I was wondering if these issues have been resolved?
Yes and no, there is still a person left who claims x2go as "werktitelschutz". A new name is the way to go if this problem can't be solved.
- Browsing the list archive, I saw that you are planning to provide packages for sid and wheezy via the official Debian repositories...
Mike answered this question before - all packaging topics will be discussed and announced on the packaging mailing list.
- I understand that you need some sort of full-screen application (similar to xdm/kdm/gdm) when running in thin client mode, and that this is why the current x2go client looks the way it looks, but I would really like to see a client that doesn't take up as much screen space, especially on Windows.
There are typically 3 Use Cases of x2goclient:
1.) You are sysop or supporter and you are required to have a lot of sessions preconfigured. X1go will offer you a interface with easy session management and search feature.
2.) You are a user of a device running the TCE (thin client environment). You'll need to have a display manager to log into your session.
3.) You are a desktop user and you only need one session configured. Often the sysop has configured x2goclient using the "hidden mode" in this case. This means, you only have an icon of the session/remote application and if you use this desktop symbol, the remote application will be started without showing x2goclient.
Would it be possible to add an option for a "smaller" login window, similar to the one used by the current NX client:
Yes it would be possible - but it is not on our list for the upcoming release. We already have been accepting to much features so baikal is delayed more than we've expected. As Mike has already introduced his solution: maybe pyhoca is an option.
when the session file was stored with a password, directly start the login process?
Maybe it is a better idea to work on a more usable solution for key authentication.
Regarding question 5, I cannot provide patches myself, as I am not a coder, but I would be willing to make a financial contribution either to the x2go project, if it is possible for them to accept such contributions, or to the coder providing the necessary patches (as long as the price quote seems reasonable and affordable to me) - if that helps motivate you to code. ;-)
It is very easy for us (I think I can speak for Mike too) to offer and accept "orders - especially if the result can be used as part of the mainstream distribution. Donations are somewhat critical, as they are not addressed to a supply of service or product (as we need to pay tax on the spend money).
Thank you for your mail and your questions. This way we've summarized a lot of things into one place.
Regards,
Heinz
X2go-dev mailing list X2go-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
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Hi Angela,
you wrote:
I just want to say:
WELL DONE!
Aww thank you *blush*. ;-)
Thank you for the accurate and carefully worded questions and thoughts and informations about X2go! Well, seems like attending A-level English classes back in school did pay off, then, huh? ;-)
It's always great when qualified people from "outside" ask questions and tell their view - now we have lots of informations summarized in a few mails and surely new ideas rising in the X2go-community
I'd call that a win-win. The thing is, I've been selling and supporting a FreeNX-based solution for a while, and FreeNX is starting to show its age. Actually, the whole free-as-in-beer-but-not-free-as-in-speech stuff in my solution is starting to bite me hard (I'm forced to migrate away from several free but closed source components). So I figured that when I'm already forced to perform such a migration, I should replace as many components as possible* with FLOSS stuff. That's why I started to intensify my experiments with x2go, and what caused me to post my questions on the list - I need to find out if x2go is, or can be turned into, a viable alternative for FreeNX in my particular use case.
Kind Regards, Stefan
*My dream would be a completely FLOSS-based system, but while there are replacements for Adobe Reader, open source Flash support is still in its infancy, so I can't avoid shipping Adobe Flash in the form of flashplugin-nonfree*.deb.
Hello Heinz,
[lots of useful info snipped]
In the past we've been two people developing x2go and at the moment Alex and I ares still interested in x2go. But during the last year more and more people have been joined this list [...] Sounds like a good time to formalize tasks and responsibilities, just
I will rearrange the sequence of my questions below, as I feel the answers you gave will allow for a few new suggestions when rearranged. ;-) like Mike did in his reply.
/ 2) I read that Univention is using x2go for their desktop virtualization />/ (see />/ <http://wiki.univention.de/index.php?title=UCS_Desktop_Virtualization_Services>). />/ Are they active supporters of x2go (i.e. donating money or manpower to />/ the project)? />/ (I ask because I'm hoping that a company planning a large-scale />/ commerial deployment like Univention seems to be doing would have an />/ interest in the x2go project staying alive and expanding.) / I didn't even know that they are using x2go. There were some contacts in the past, but it was never mentioned that x2go would be a component of ucs.
Well, if Mike and/or you can establish contact with them, it might be a good idea to point the following out to them:
/ 1a) As far as I understand, x2go uses parts of the GPL'ed Nomachine />/ code, which will remain available in its current state due to the GPL, />/ but will not be maintained by Nomachine any more. Are the x2go />/ developers willing - and able - to maintain this part of the code, in />/ case it requires maintenance and / or security patches? />/ 1b) Or are you going to do a re-write of the Nomachine code currently />/ in use? / The used used XOrg code isn't maintained since a long time. The only way to get this construction supportable would be porting the functionality as modules to a recent XOrg Version. We've been talking about this for a very long time now. This all should be possible, but would take a lot of time. It would be a decision about neglecting other parts of x2go for some time. As Mike already mentioned, it will be a good idea to collect some people to do this task.
I would suggest to discuss this topic after baikal (upcoming release) is released. As a company, they should have a vested interest in the development of x2go, so maybe they can provide the neccessary manpower for this task?
/ 3) I heard of legal issues regarding the project name and some other />/ stuff. That was back in December. Since the project is still named x2go, />/ and Univention is openly using this name, I was wondering if these />/ issues have been resolved? / Yes and no, there is still a person left who claims x2go as "werktitelschutz". A new name is the way to go if this problem can't be solved. I decided to search for x2go entries in the DPMA database and found only two entries: http://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/register/3020100035404/DE - "X2GO!" and http://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/register/3020100035412/DE - "X-2GO"
Both are only protected in the categories 09 - computer programs for trading at electronic stock exchanges and 36 - financial services, execution and processing of stocks at electronic stock markets.
Now, these are only approximate translations from German, and this is by no means legal advice, but I don't see how x2go could infringe on these registrations - x2go is not a trading application in itself. While it could be used to display the output of one, so could a web browser. And I doubt calling a web browser "x2go" would collide with these registrations. Again, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice - but my guess is that if you ask a competent lawyer, s/he will tell you the same.
[snip]
/ 5) I understand that you need some sort of full-screen application />/ (similar to xdm/kdm/gdm) when running in thin client mode, and that this />/ is why the current x2go client looks the way it looks, but I would />/ really like to see a client that doesn't take up as much screen space, />/ especially on Windows. / There are typically 3 Use Cases of x2goclient:
1.) You are sysop or supporter and you are required to have a lot of sessions preconfigured. X1go will offer you a interface with easy session management and search feature.
2.) You are a user of a device running the TCE (thin client environment). You'll need to have a display manager to log into your session.
3.) You are a desktop user and you only need one session configured. Often the sysop has configured x2goclient using the "hidden mode" in this case. This means, you only have an icon of the session/remote application and if you use this desktop symbol, the remote application will be started without showing x2goclient. Well, there's 4.) You are a desktop user that needs multiple session configured, and you have 4.a) No write permissions to your desktop, because of an anal-retentive admin (don't laugh, I've seen that) 4.b) Way too many icons on your desktop, and want to reduce clutter (1 icon w/ dropdown instead of 5 or 10) 4.c) No non-standard icons on your desktop, and want to keep it that way 4.d) Previous experience with the Nomachine NXclient and don't want to change
4.a) - 4.c) are usually solved by placing the link to the client application in the start menu; 4.b) can also be solved by placing a link to the main application on the desktop;
However, I see 4.d) as the main point: *Usability* for users migrating from Nomachine to x2go. The general user attitude is "change is bad" - anything that changes from their previous user experience will reduce their willingness to switch.
/ when the session file was />/ stored with a password, directly start the login process? / Maybe it is a better idea to work on a more usable solution for key authentication. Actually, that is something I don't worry about, as the users I'm currently dealing with either have no strict security requirements or their configuration file is stored in their home directory, which is not accessible to other users. I won't complain about a key file authentication system being present, though. ;-)
It is very easy for us (I think I can speak for Mike too) to offer and accept "orders - especially if the result can be used as part of the mainstream distribution. Donations are somewhat critical, as they are not addressed to a supply of service or product (as we need to pay tax on the spend money).
Well, Mike is too far away to accept this type of donation, but since you and Alex are not too far away from me, I wouldn't mind "donating" a beer keg from our local micro-brew and a few Weisswursts and steaks when you show up. ;-)
Thank you for your mail and your questions. This way we've summarized a lot of things into one place. Well, as suggested before: This stuff should end up in the FAQ, or in the Wiki, or whereever newbies interested in the project will easily find it. Who will take care of that? :-)
Kind Regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan,
On Do 03 Mär 2011 00:00:32 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
/ when the session file was />/ stored with a password, directly start the login process? / Maybe it is a better idea to work on a more usable solution for key authentication. Actually, that is something I don't worry about, as the users I'm
currently dealing with either have no strict security requirements
or their configuration file is stored in their home directory, which
is not accessible to other users. I won't complain about a key file authentication system being
present, though. ;-)
the mainstream focus should be generic. And generic in this context
means: no clear text storage of passwords, no password command line
option if this command line password is afterwards seen in the process
list (ps aux).
For PyHoca-GUI+LTSP (I am actually aiming at an LTSP integration of
PyHoca-GUI/-cli) I will start experimenting with python-setproctitle
soon and see if it is possible to hide a -p <password> command line
option in output of ,,ps aux'' (rdesktop does that). If so, I will
discuss (re-)adding a --password option to PyHoca-GUI on this list. A
--password option was already implemented in PyHoca but I had removed
it for the above named security reasons.
However, another approach on the Linux side might be the usage of
tools like gnome-keyring or similar.
Greets, Mike
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Hi Mike,
you wrote:
the mainstream focus should be generic. [...]
However, another approach on the Linux side might be the usage of tools like gnome-keyring or similar. And exactly how would a Linux-only solution be "generic"? ;-)
-Stefan
Hi Stefan,
On Do 03 Mär 2011 10:17:51 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
However, another approach on the Linux side might be the usage of tools like gnome-keyring or similar. And exactly how would a Linux-only solution be "generic"? ;-)
-Stefan
doesn't Windows 7 have a password storage?
Generic would be:
o use gnome-keyring if available o or use kwallet if available o or on Windows: use the Win password manager if available o or...
Generic would also be a statement: this functionality is not supported
for your OS.
Greets, Mike
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Hi Mike,
you wrote:
doesn't Windows 7 have a password storage? Not that I'd know, though I am not exactly a Windows 7 expert (plus, Windows XP and Vista are still out there, too). I only remember seeing a password storage function when it comes to web site logins in Internet Explorer.
[SNIP]
Generic would also be a statement: this functionality is not supported for your OS. Which would be a NX/x2go-migration-blocker for those currently using the "store password" function of the NXclient.
Again, I don't mind if you're using ssh keyfiles instead of stored passwords (I could drop such a keyfile into the user's home directory and set it up in a way that it doesn't require a password). FWIW, you could offer to ship invisible dwarves that type the password on the user's keyboard and I wouldn't care. ;-) I just need *some* way to provide a one-click (or double-click, since we're talking Windows here) login.
The reason behind this is a mix of usability and security issues:
Usability: The user is already authenticated on the Windows machine or the Windows Domain. No one else has access to the particular configuration file, as it is stored in the user's home directory (for this concept, it doesn't matter if it's a NX config file with a plaintext password, or a passwordless ssh secret key for x2go). There is absolutely no need to ask the user for a password again.
Security: While it would be possible to connect the NX or x2go server to the Windows Domain using PAM, keeping the two "worlds" seperate is a security benefit, since in the unlikely event that the Linux box gets hacked, the Windows Domain is not exposed to the attacker.
Kind Regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan,
On Do 03 Mär 2011 12:49:15 CET Stefan Baur wrote:
Generic would also be a statement: this functionality is not supported for your OS. Which would be a NX/x2go-migration-blocker for those currently using
the "store password" function of the NXclient.
OK, you are thinking in migration NX2X2go-terms... I see.
Again, I don't mind if you're using ssh keyfiles instead of stored
passwords (I could drop such a keyfile into the user's home
directory and set it up in a way that it doesn't require a password). FWIW, you could offer to ship invisible dwarves that type the
password on the user's keyboard and I wouldn't care. ;-) I just need *some* way to provide a one-click (or double-click,
since we're talking Windows here) login.
SSH keyfiles are indeed possible to use with both clients.
However, neither with PyHoca-GUI nor with X2goClient-qt you have a key
generation mechanism at hand. However, this would be really a need
feature:
o The client generates a key pair o at first login, the pubkey is pushed to the server (this needs a password) o at further logins, the pubkey is used for Auth...
What do you think about something like this?
Usability: The user is already authenticated on the Windows machine
or the Windows Domain. No one else has access to the particular
configuration file, as it is stored in the user's home directory
(for this concept, it doesn't matter if it's a NX config file with a
plaintext password, or a passwordless ssh secret key for x2go).
There is absolutely no need to ask the user for a password again.
Single-Sign-On is always a neat thing to have...
Security: While it would be possible to connect the NX or x2go
server to the Windows Domain using PAM, keeping the two "worlds"
seperate is a security benefit, since in the unlikely event that the
Linux box gets hacked, the Windows Domain is not exposed to the
attacker.
Ok, one possible approach.
Please let me known your opinion about the above approach (SSH key
generation). It should be rather easy to implement this into Python
X2go. If you are interested, I will add that to the PyHoca-GUI
enhancement wishlist.
Greets, Mike
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Hi Mike,
you wrote:
Which would be a NX/x2go-migration-blocker for those currently using the "store password" function of the NXclient.
OK, you are thinking in migration NX2X2go-terms... I see.
That is the main objective that led me to the x2go project - as "FreeNX is dying, NetCraft confirms it". ;-)
SSH keyfiles are indeed possible to use with both clients.
Interesting. I never used them with NX and can'T remember seeing a GUI option for this; then again, I'm not using the latest client.
However, neither with PyHoca-GUI nor with X2goClient-qt you have a key generation mechanism at hand. However, this would be really a need feature:
o The client generates a key pair o at first login, the pubkey is pushed to the server (this needs a password) o at further logins, the pubkey is used for Auth...
What do you think about something like this?
The idea of automatically generating a key pair sounds nice.
I'm not sure how to deal with the password issue, though. I know that I can block password-based logins for root in sshd_config, so that root always requires a key file, but I wouldn't know how to tell SSH "if the user has a keyfile, disallow password-based logins" for regular users and on a per-user basis.
Also, this would mean that the initial password remains unchanged on the server, so someone gaining physical access to it could try to log in on the console as that particular user. Of course, physical security of the server is another issue that needs to be dealth with by the server administrator (and not by us) - but still, leaving an initial password unchanged sounds like asking for trouble.
If we had a mechanism to issue a passwd -l <username> after the keyfile has been transferred, things would look better. (AFAIK, a key file will still allow you access to your account even if your password has been locked).
Usability: The user is already authenticated on the Windows machine or the Windows Domain. No one else has access to the particular configuration file, as it is stored in the user's home directory (for this concept, it doesn't matter if it's a NX config file with a plaintext password, or a passwordless ssh secret key for x2go). There is absolutely no need to ask the user for a password again.
Single-Sign-On is always a neat thing to have...
Indeed, and on Windows, it can usually only be achieved using third-party tools (and even with them, it's still a RPITA when it comes to proper administration of these tools: Detecting "Password expired, please change" application popups, fulfilling minimum password requirements, etc.). Very few programs query the Windows authentication to check if a particular user is permitted to run them.
[snip]
Please let me known your opinion about the above approach (SSH key generation). It should be rather easy to implement this into Python X2go. If you are interested, I will add that to the PyHoca-GUI enhancement wishlist.
I'd say add it to the wishlist, but with a "needs-more-thoughts" flag regarding proper implementation, see my worries above.
I hope my comments don't turn this wish into the following wish from the PuTTY wishlist: <http://goo.gl/CwZa8>
Kind Regards, Stefan
On 11-03-03 12:49, Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de> wrote:
Hi Mike,
you wrote:
doesn't Windows 7 have a password storage? Not that I'd know, though I am not exactly a Windows 7 expert (plus, Windows XP and Vista are still out there, too). I only remember seeing a password storage function when it comes to web site logins in Internet Explorer.
[SNIP]
Generic would also be a statement: this functionality is not supported for your OS. Which would be a NX/x2go-migration-blocker for those currently using the "store password" function of the NXclient.
Again, I don't mind if you're using ssh keyfiles instead of stored passwords (I could drop such a keyfile into the user's home directory and set it up in a way that it doesn't require a password). FWIW, you could offer to ship invisible dwarves that type the password on the user's keyboard and I wouldn't care. ;-) I just need *some* way to provide a one-click (or double-click, since we're talking Windows here) login.
The keyfiles idea doesn't sound too bad, let the user type the login password, create a keyfile and use the password to remotely install the private part of that keyfile. Though it has almost the same bad security problems as storing cleartext passwords, there are some important differences that would make it worthwile: A password will be re-used (admins can forbid it all they want, won't work), so storing cleartext-passwords will also allow the compromise of other systems. And a compromised ssh-key can also be disabled by removing the appropriate authorized_keys entry instead of needing to change quite a lot of passwords.
The reason behind this is a mix of usability and security issues:
Usability: The user is already authenticated on the Windows machine or the Windows Domain. No one else has access to the particular configuration file, as it is stored in the user's home directory (for this concept, it doesn't matter if it's a NX config file with a plaintext password, or a passwordless ssh secret key for x2go). There is absolutely no need to ask the user for a password again.
Agreed, but just as a suggestion, you could also use Kerberos via winbind for passwordless ssh iirc. That way the authentication via the windows domain would be reused without needing any further password and without a possible security compromise.
Security: While it would be possible to connect the NX or x2go server to the Windows Domain using PAM, keeping the two "worlds" seperate is a security benefit, since in the unlikely event that the Linux box gets hacked, the Windows Domain is not exposed to the attacker.
On the other hand, in the far more likely event your Windows Domain gets hacked, you have handed the attacker all the Unix passwords on a platter.
That said, I don't really care one way or the other, as long as it is possible and easy for the admin to disable the "remember password" button or as long as its disabled by default.
Ciao,
Alexander Wuerstlein.
Hello Alexander,
you wrote:
Security: While it would be possible to connect the NX or x2go server to the Windows Domain using PAM, keeping the two "worlds" seperate is a security benefit, since in the unlikely event that the Linux box gets hacked, the Windows Domain is not exposed to the attacker.
On the other hand, in the far more likely event your Windows Domain gets hacked, you have handed the attacker all the Unix passwords on a platter.
Well, I'll admit that I might be a little self-centric here, but in the usage scenario I have in mind, the Windows Domain has no Internet connection at all, except for the one server distributing the Windows Update packages - and even that one is limited to the Windows Update sites using a whitelist on a proxy server. So an attacker would have to be a rogue employee or someone else who gained physical access (fake janitor or whatever). The Linux box with NX/x2go, OTOH, is connected to the Internet.
Kind Regards, Stefan
-
Alexander Wuerstlein -
Angela Fuß -
Heinz-M. Graesing -
John A. Sullivan III -
John Williams -
Mike Gabriel -
Moritz Struebe -
Reinhard Tartler -
Stefan Baur