On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:18 PM,
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (J?rg Sawatzki)
2. Re: GPL violations (das.t)
3. Re: GPL violations (J?rg Sawatzki)
4. Re: GPL violations (John A. Sullivan III)
5. Re: Plugin building (Oleksandr Shneyder)
6. Re: Plugin building (John A. Sullivan III)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:02:56 +0200
From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki@web.de>
To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18
Message-ID: <1285189376.3097.408.camel@asus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
They are violating the GPL and the philosphy of OSS for months and you
say: give them a break! Great!
A lot of people on this list seem to have the opinion that Alex and
Heinz are so great and they work is so valuable that they don't need to
follow law and order today...but maybe tomorrow?
What would you do if you have asked for sources for months? You won't
say: Oh well, give them a break!
There is absolutely NO way around it: Even if they were called Barrack
Obama and Bill Gates, they would need to fullfill the requirements of
the license.
It is sad that lots of people try to find weird reasons why these two
guys don't have to follow the same laws and duties as everybody else
does.
J?rg
Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 16:43 -0400 schrieb brian mullan:
> Joerg
>
> I agree with John in his view of Hienz and Alex. They are good folks
> BUT everyone has to remember they are ONLY 2 people !
>
> They have a separate life where they have to earn money to support
> themselves & families too.
>
> x2go is something they have dedicated themselves to because it aids
> them in their other income related activities.
>
> There's an old saying:
>
> Nothings impossible for those that
> don't do the work.
>
> Given that Heinz and Alex have been working for the past year to
> create this new release of x2go ... again while working on their
> day jobs ... oh, and while building the new x2go wiki etc.
>
> Now that they are in what is hoped to be the final stages and frankly
> I'd rather they focus on that and worry about where to post the
> source code when they have some breathing space.
>
> Give them a break is my vote.
>
> Brian Mullan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 14:51:42 -0400
> From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com>
> To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
> Message-ID: <1285181502.3417.19.camel@localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 19:47 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki wrote:
> > Hey list,
> >
> > I just got an email back from Heinz - a private mail!
> > You know that I have been discussing about the plugin and
> sources with him and Alex on this list for a couple of months
> now.
> > Other people have asked as well where the sources for the
> plugin are.
> >
> > Obviously they think that I cannot read C++ code and sent me
> the link to the plugin.cpp source
> (http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplugin/) again -
> > in the hope that I believe them. But unfortunately I had a
> look into the code (trying to build it) and saw that it
> executes a binary: an extended
> > version of x2goclient with heaps of new command line
> options. Asking for the source (which is your and my right
> according to GPL) I
> > got one of these famous excuses saying "oh, we are in the
> process of changing to QTBrowserPlugin" and so on.
> >
> > In short: 99% of x2goplugin's sources are not published -
> this affects (modified and not modified) third-party
> components as well.
> > Everybody who publically distrubtes GPL software in binary
> form and does NOT provide a link to the sources violates the
> license. The GPL doesn't
> > say "if you have time and the weather is nice you can
> publish the sources if you want to".
> >
> > Therefore I would not recommend anybody to use the plugin in
> a production environment and integrate it into any project! It
> will be you
> > who will get into court if one of your customers enforces
> his GPL rights and you have distributed it in your project.
> >
> > Just to let you know: I feel a bit fooled with all the
> excuses and that they try to somehow get around legal
> requirements by sending me some
> > stuff that's only a 7.5K file wrapping around the actual
> component.
> >
> > In my opinion, the way they deal with community
> input/ideas/contributions is ignorance. Nothing of the critics
> and
> > proposals was taken seriously. We still don't have a GIT
> repo - and that would take them 5 minutes or less!
> > But that's alright - we don't have to have git. But we HAVE
> to follow legal requirements in the GPL. And not next year,
> but NOW!
> >
> > I spent a lot of time and energy into this and the result: I
> am maintaining my own python code externally now, because they
> don't let me
> > contirubte! And the worst result: I am frustrated as hell,
> that I spend months waiting and writing dozens of mails to
> enforce my rights that I
> > have by law.
> >
> > After all, I'd just like to inform all of you, that I am
> going to report this to gpl-violations.org as after explaining
> it again and again I still see no change.
> > I'll inform NoMachine as well and advise them to enforce
> their legal rights as well - it is their code as well!
> >
> > I am sorry for bothering you with this, but I think it is
> important to draw things like this into plubic attention
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Hello, Joerg. I've listened to you very patiently on this
> list for a while now because you do contribute and help and
> you are correct about
> the GPL. I, too, am frustrated about the lack of access to all
> the source and the difficulty in finding the source that is
> available
> (although less so than you because I have not had the time
> that I wish I had to look into the sources and contribute
> more).
>
> However, I believe you are seriously misreading Heinz (with
> whom I have now worked for a couple of years) and Oleksandr.
> Yes, they should (make
> that "must") publish the code but I also realize they are two
> honest and sincere fellows with full time jobs outside of X2Go
> who have given us an
> enormous project with no significant financial backing of
> which I'm aware. Sometimes there are just not enough hours in
> the day (week,
> month) to get it all done. Perhaps we may disagree with their
> priorities but let's not think there is some malicious, hidden
> agenda.
> Receiving such emails probably does more to make them wonder
> why they ever launched this project than it does to help the
> situation.
>
> I am painfully familiar with being a completely overwhelmed
> open source maintainer. Sometimes there is not even enough
> time to enable
> volunteers who are willing to help (set up git, wiki, code,
> etc.) to help. It can just feel completely overwhelming. So
> let's please
> contribute, guide, even positively correct but let's not jump
> up and down on the dev's heads. That doesn't help at all. I'm
> am sincerely
> grateful for what Heinz and Oleksandr have done despite my
> concerns
> which are very close to yours. Peace - John
>
> PS - regarding the plugin specifically, I believe they have
> made it clear that the plugin is NOT released. They have
> kindly responded to
> requests for access to the plugin by list members by making it
> available. Perhaps now they wish they had not been so kind
> and kept it
> under wraps until it was ready for release including source.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X2go-dev mailing list
> X2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:04:56 +0200 (CEST)
From: "das.t" <tobias@tonstrom.de>
To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1009222301200.10671@tobea.knuff.daheim>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give us a PREVEW
of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing has been
released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am _more_than_sure_ that
we _are_ going to get the source code.
if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on vacation, so
there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work now as i
know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts - fine, then go
for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more than enough in
oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely unnecessarily
rude manner.
if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
enough said. i am off this threat now.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:26:30 +0200
From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki@web.de>
To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
Message-ID: <1285190790.3097.448.camel@asus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Tobias,
it is very nice that you want to protect the two.
Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs" people because
he wants to get his right.
I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when people tell me
heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law...
I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the build
environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it to a
webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would absolutely
fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever have been
complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE MINUTE to
follow the laws and license requirements?
And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have downloaded right now.
And not the code of a polished release that comes out next year or so!
I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next release and not
after!
But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I fight for my
right.
J?rg
Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t:
> the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give us a PREVEW
> of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing has been
> released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am _more_than_sure_ that
> we _are_ going to get the source code.
>
> if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on vacation, so
> there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work now as i
> know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
>
> if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts - fine, then go
> for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more than enough in
> oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely unnecessarily
> rude manner.
>
> if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
>
> enough said. i am off this threat now.
> _______________________________________________
> X2go-dev mailing list
> X2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:01:10 -0400
From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com>
To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
Message-ID: <1285192870.3417.29.camel@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
We're not treating you like an idiot for correctly pointing out the
things that should be done; we are grateful for that. We're treating
you like an idiot for the way you are going about it.
Yes, they should follow the requirements of the GPL. Yes, they did not
have to accede to the many requests to have access to the plugin before
they were really ready to give either the binaries or the source to
everyone. Yes, they did not have to share any of this project but could
have kept it as a simple in-house project. Given all of of those yeses,
I do eagerly await the release of the source and will wait until it is
released realizing that the delay hurts me but not more than not having
the project at all. In fact, I eagerly await the time when our business
turns cash positive so we can financially support the project. If they
were a corporation making a profit off the backs of open source
developers and hoarding the source code for nefarious reasons, I'd be
far less patient. If you are tired of waiting, go away. Peace - John
On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 23:26 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki wrote:
> Tobias,
>
> it is very nice that you want to protect the two.
> Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs" people because
> he wants to get his right.
> I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when people tell me
> heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law...
>
> I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the build
> environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it to a
> webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would absolutely
> fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever have been
> complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE MINUTE to
> follow the laws and license requirements?
>
> And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have downloaded right now.
> And not the code of a polished release that comes out next year or so!
> I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next release and not
> after!
>
> But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I fight for my
> right.
>
>
> J?rg
>
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t:
> > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give us a PREVEW
> > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing has been
> > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am _more_than_sure_ that
> > we _are_ going to get the source code.
> >
> > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on vacation, so
> > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work now as i
> > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
> >
> > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts - fine, then go
> > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more than enough in
> > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely unnecessarily
> > rude manner.
> >
> > if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
> >
> > enough said. i am off this threat now.
> > _______________________________________________
> > X2go-dev mailing list
> > X2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X2go-dev mailing list
> X2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:02:26 +0200
From: Oleksandr Shneyder <oleksandr.shneyder@obviously-nice.de>
To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building
Message-ID: <4C9A7CF2.9030400@obviously-nice.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
J?rg Sawatzki schrieb:
> Hi Heinz, Alex and list,
>
Hello J?rg, list
Please excuse us, that we cannot answer on all of you e-mails, but we
have a lot of stress with our jobs, vacations and developing new version
of x2go. We will try to answer in this e-mail on some of your questions
that you asked in the mailing list.
> As you told me some days ago, the plugin source is here:
> http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplug/
>
> That is indeed true - but where's the rest of it? As far as I can tell
> from the code, it starts an instance of x2goclient with some "secret"
> command line options. Where is that modified x2goclient's source? It's
> not the 3.01 x2goclient that is floating around around somewhere in
> x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb, is it?
There is no "modified x2goclient's source". We have only plugin and
x2goclient which embedding itself in Firefox. You can always download
sources of all software which we developing. All our solutions are open
and we have no secrets from our community. The newest "testing" version
of x2go client(including source code) is here:
http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb/pool-heuler/x2goclient/
All of that stuff is testing. We working on x2go Plugin based on
QtBrowserPlugin. If we will satisfied with it, there will be only one
source tree for client and plugin.
here is a small FAQ:
Q: Where is a source code of X2goclient for Windows?
A: There is a only one source tree of x2goclient for windows, linux and
mac.
Q: Why x2goclient don't use libssh or shared ssh connection instead of
starting a lot of ssh connections?
A: There are several reasons not to use shared connections. X2go client
starting ssh to run some commands on server. But also x2goclient
starting a couple of ssh-tunnels and reverse ssh-tunnels. All client
ssh-connections have the same options as a master connection. This make
impossible to use shared ssh connections to create reverse tunnels. We
are testing now if libssh can do all this stuff in one connection and
how stable it running on all platforms. If all tests with multiply ssh
tunnels and reverse tunnels running at the same time will be successful,
we will integrate libssh in x2goclient.
Q: Why x2goclient-cli have not many features of x2goclient, not
finishing all child processes, etc?
A: We have wrote x2goclient-cli only for purposes to testing x2goserver.
Last changes which we made on this package are dated with 15. Sep. 2009.
We have no planes to develop other clients than Qt X2go Client. But I
wish a lot of success to all of your who want to develop other clients
for x2go (for example J?rg with his pyx2go). I only hope that those
clients will stay compatible to x2go. If we have more time, we will help
you with a pleasure. But unfortunately, now we have not enough time even
to comment all e-mails in our mailing list.
Q: Where is a git ????!!!!!!
A: Coming soon. I promise.
Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all this time?
A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better.
QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem with windows
clipboard is our main occupation at this time.
I hope with this E-mail we have answered on some of your questions.
Yours sincerely,
Alex and Heinz
PS:
Ugly English is only from Alex, not from Heinz. I hope you can still
understand all what I have wrote :)
--
Oleksandr Shneyder
Dipl. Informatik
X2go Core Developer Team
email: oleksandr.shneyder@obviously-nice.de
web: www.obviously-nice.de
--> X2go - everywhere@home
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:18:09 -0400
From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com>
To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building
Message-ID: <1285193889.3417.32.camel@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 00:02 +0200, Oleksandr Shneyder wrote:
> <snip>
> Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all this time?
> A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better.
> QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem with windows
> clipboard is our main occupation at this time.
<snip>
A multi-browser client (QtBrowserPlugin), Windows full screen and
clipboard are extremely high priorities for my company. Thank you for
focusing there - John
------------------------------
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