x2go-dev September 2010

x2go-dev@lists.x2go.org

32 participants
42 discussions

Hello dead project...
by Eli K. 24 Sep '10

24 Sep '10

I just wan't to be fair comment the things that going on here. Dear project, whats going on here is business strategy. Somebody wants to earn money or wants to have good reputation and needs influence on the tool he is using - at best not influence but control. This is needed to proof customers or what ever you address that you are the only competence. It is always esier to show the world failures of people, but in this way it was showing failures AND developing something better. I too wanted to get control here and I've began to work on my own fork. And I've caused trouble to existing project. I bet this project is dead even if you don't know now. The failures of the project was: No awareness of trademarks, no awareness of fast reacting and wrong marketing. If you want to keep control you should develop such things as company - not as project. To give you a last chance - you can keep your little domain. It will be wanted soon by sombody else - so make your homework... ...this time... Congratulations to the new way - I bet with contributions a fork will grow faster and better. Here my thoughts about how this would be better: * Don't spend time on own clients - integrate your work into existing clients like krd, tsclient, vinagre,... * Have every functionality as a module so that somebody can use SMB and others SSHFS or WEBDAV * As Plugin you should only make a google native client project. This is much better than every Plugin and Googles Browser even runs on phones - and you don't even need to compile it especially. I bet this can be soon done with python too. * Face the future - there will only be google and ubuntu - javacript and python. Your work is to be compared with spice and nx4!!! so long...

12 31

Hardware SSH acceleration
by Dimitris Anogiatis 24 Sep '10

24 Sep '10

Dear List, Does anyone know of any advantages from installing a hardware ssh (or crypto) accelleration device on a server machine running x2go? For example I've tried to tweak my SSH server but despite some improvements in responsiveness video playback (I tried a youtube video) is still choppy. Would a device like that help or does x2go's design not allow it to benefit from such an enhancement? I'm using my x2go client from a remote location using wifi and not in a LAN. Regards, Dimitris

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Re: [X2go-dev] headless client with pyx2go
by Dick Kniep 23 Sep '10

23 Sep '10

Hi Mike and list, We are seasoned python developers and thus very capable in assisting in the build of pyx2go client. We could fund some of the development, but we prefer to assist in the development ourselves, because that way we have some influence in the development and also in the speed of the development. That is also why I asked for documentation. If you have started a project for this, we would be happy to participate. So if you have an svn server or something and could give me read/write access we would definitely help. But...... We do need some information on the architecture that we would use. We have looked at the way information is exchanged with the server and I start to understand some of it, but a lot is still blurry. So PLEASE give me some insight in the architecture and what component implements which part. Dick Kniep Lindix BV tel. 036-5215580 mob. 06-50991858 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mike Gabriel <m.gabriel(a)das-netzwerkteam.de> Verzonden: wo 22-09-10 03:16:36 Aan: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de; Onderwerp: Re: [X2go-dev] headless client with pyx2go > Hey Dick, > > On Di 21 Sep 2010 15:18:12 CEST Dick Kniep wrote: > > > Hi list, > > > > We want to develop a headless client in python using pyx2go. > > > > The application should have the following features: > > > > 1. All parameters except for the password should come from a profile > > stored in the users home directory > > 2. The user should have the possibility to enter the password, the > > username and the server, where the username and the server should be > > retrieved from the profile > > 3. The client should support clientside printing as the x2go client > > 4. The home directory (or another directory) on the clientside > > should be mounted with fuse on the serverside > > 5. The client should start XMing with all appropriate parameters > > 6. It should be possible to start an application from the server > > side by starting a file. So if a file called test.doc exists and > > that file is started, MS-Word should start. > > 7. The profile should be maintained by a separate program (nice gui > > application) > > > > We've got the demo.py running. However when it ends, the session is > > terminated correctly, but a thread remains active. Probably the > > thread should be joined with the mainprogram. > > > > Could anyone help us with documentation on the use of fuse and the > > way commands are passed from client to server vice-versa? > > Just last weekend I (with Jörgs great help) I have started working on > such a headless client implementation. > > The working title for the project is pyx2go-cli and once there is some > stability within it, it will be available with Jörgs python-x2go > library on GitHub. There will also be Debian/Ubuntu packages available. > > If you have the possibility of funding such development work (and > thus, speed it up), I (and probably also Jörg) will be happy to > provide you with support and code. > > Best, > Mike Gabriel > > -- > > DAS-NETZWERKTEAM > mike gabriel, dorfstr. 27, 24245 barmissen > fon: +49 (4302) 281418, fax: +49 (4302) 281419 > > mail: m.gabriel(a)das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de > > freeBusy: > https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.x… > _______________________________________________ > X2go-dev mailing list > X2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > > !DSPAM:4c9958f438085362964316! > >

3 3

BKO and USB over IP
by brian mullan 23 Sep '10

23 Sep '10

Speaking of Thin Clients... Although this is not directly related to the Thin Client thread it is something I was impressed with. Boot Kernel Organization (BKO) <http://boot.kernel.org/> BKO is based on a REALLY SMALL linux ... about 1 Megabyte. It can be installed onto just 1 small partition of a USB, CD (or floppy if you have one). Its sole purpose is to boot and provide you with a simple GUI menu system (see pictures on the site) where you can select which OS you want to boot and then *BKO uses HTTPFS to download and boot that OS* for you. NOTE: on their website their list of supported OS and OS version is very outdated. When you actually do this you will see Ubuntu 10.04 desktop and server, you will also see newer versions of fedora as well as other linux distributions. I've started using this with virtual machines. I download the CD ISO and then use that to create a KVM virtual machine instance using that .ISO file. Why? Well I use that 1 KVM VM instance to launch any new VM instance I might need. Since it is only 1 Megabyte in size it boots nearly immediately. I select which Linux distribution I want, what version and the BKO then downloads the selected OS and boots it. It has worked great so far. Off of the BKO FAQ you should note: BKO is based on HTTPFS and it uses only valid HTTP requests. It means, if you have HTTP access, you can boot with BKO. Only problem that may occur is if you are behind HTTP proxy. We plan to add support for HTTP proxy in near future. Stay tuned till then. It is expected that you can use *Public DNS* system as BKO is configured to use Public dns servers instead of the servers provided by user or DHCP. We will be soon fixing this problem. Till then, you are expected to have public DNS access. That 2nd paragraph *I think may be outdated* as I believe you can now install the BKO "server" locally instead of using the BKO.org servers to download from. If you install your own BKO server locally then you "could" install all of the OS's you work with on it. Then you could use your own BKO to select *and more importantly boot a pre-configured OS* !!! I haven't checked but I am wondering if a Windows OS could be booted using BKO as well? I'm thinking you could have something like a preconfigured Ubuntu (or fedora etc) desktop with x2go client configurations and applications already installed and then just use the BKO and their GPXE to boot the clients. I haven't gotten as far as looking into installing it locally so my current workaround is to use BKO to boot then I use the python based Fabric library to automagically provision the OS with x2go, the apps I want etc. Fabric is really simple to use and lets you execute remote commands via scripts so you can for instance install x2go server or client very easily.. After the Fabric script is done my virtual machine has the OS of my choice with all the apps and x2go installed. Another interesting technology I discovered lately and tried out is USB over IP. Perhaps this could be incorporated into a future feature for x2go server & client ??? How To Set Up A USB-Over-IP Server And Client With Ubuntu 10.04 Version 1.0 Author: Falko Timme <ft [at] falkotimme [dot] com> <http://twitter.com/falko> Follow me on Twitter <http://twitter.com/falko> Last edited 01/18/2010 This tutorial shows how to set up a USB-over-IP server with Ubuntu 10.04 as well as a USB-over-IP client (also running Ubuntu 10.04). The USB/IP Project<http://usbip.sourceforge.net/>aims to develop a general USB device sharing system over IP network. To share USB devices between computers with their full functionality, USB/IP encapsulates "USB I/O messages" into TCP/IP payloads and transmits them between computers. USB-over-IP can be useful for virtual machines, for example, that don't have access to the host system's hardware - USB-over-IP allows virtual machines to use remote USB devices. I do not issue any guarantee that this will work for you! 1 Preliminary Note This tutorial is based on AliRezaTaleghani's tutorial How To Modify Your Gnu/Linux Box To Serve As A USB Over IP Server<http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-modify-your-gnu-linux-box-to-serve-as-a-us…>, but I've adjusted it for Ubuntu 10.04 (server and client). If you want to use a Windows client, please take a look at AliRezaTaleghani's tutorial - that part is still the same. In this tutorial I use the server server1.example.com with the IP address 192.168.0.100 and the client client1.example.com with the IP address 192.168.0.101, both running Ubuntu 10.04. These settings might differ for you, so you have to replace them where appropriate. 2 Installing And Using USB/IP On The Server server1: We can install usbip as follows: aptitude install usbip Afterwards we load the usbip kernel modules: modprobe usbip modprobe usbip_common_mod To check if they really got loaded, run: lsmod | grep usbip The output should be similar to this one: root@server1:~# lsmod | grep usbip usbip 15124 0 usbip_common_mod 13605 1 usbip root@server1:~# To make sure that both modules get loaded automatically whenever you boot the system, you can add them to /etc/modules: vi /etc/modules [...] usbip usbip_common_mod Now we can start the usbip daemon: usbipd -D root@server1:~# usbipd -D Bind usbip.ko to a usb device to be exportable! root@server1:~# Now attach a USB device that you want to export to the server - I'm using a SanDisk USB flash drive here. Execute the command lsusb to find the corresponding Vendor/Device ID which is in the form of: Bus XXX Device YYY: ID VendorID:DeviceID The output on my server is as follows: root@server1:~# lsusb Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0781:5151 SanDisk Corp. Cruzer Micro Flash Drive Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub root@server1:~# The Vendor/Device ID of my SanDisk USB flash drive is 0781:5151. Now run usbip_bind_driver --list The output on my server is as follows: root@server1:~# usbip_bind_driver --list List USB devices - busid 1-1 (0781:5151) 1-1:1.0 -> usb-storage root@server1:~# As you see, the Vendor/Device ID of my SanDisk USB flash drive (0781:5151) corresponds to the BUSID 1-1. We need this BUSID to attach the USB device to the server: usbip_bind_driver --usbip 1-1 root@server1:~# usbip_bind_driver --usbip 1-1 ** (process:765): DEBUG: 1-1:1.0 -> usb-storage ** (process:765): DEBUG: unbinding interface ** (process:765): DEBUG: write "add 1-1" to /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usbip/match_busid ** Message: bind 1-1 to usbip, complete! root@server1:~# That's it, we can now use the SanDisk USB flash drive on a remote usbipclient. BTW, if you run... netstat -tap ... you should see that the usbip daemon is listening on port 3240 so please make sure that this port isn't blocked by your firewall: root@server1:~# netstat -tap Active Internet connections (servers and established) Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State PID/Program name tcp 0 0 *:ssh *:* LISTEN 537/sshd tcp 0 0 *:3240 *:* LISTEN 762/usbipd tcp 0 52 server1.example.com:ssh 192.168.0.199:4024 ESTABLISHED 667/0 tcp6 0 0 [::]:ssh [::]:* LISTEN 537/sshd root@server1:~# Copyright © 2010 Falko Timme All Rights Reserved. How To Set Up A USB-Over-IP Server And Client With Ubuntu 10.04 - Part 2 3 Installing And Using USB/IP On The Client client1: We must install usbip on the client as well: aptitude install usbip Afterwards we load the vhci-hcd kernel module: modprobe vhci-hcd To check if it really got loaded, run: lsmod | grep vhci_hcd The output should be similar to this one: root@client1:~# lsmod | grep vhci_hcd vhci_hcd 19800 0 usbip_common_mod 13605 1 vhci_hcd root@client1:~# To make sure that the module gets loaded automatically whenever you boot the system, you can add it to /etc/modules: vi /etc/modules [...] vhci-hcd Now connect to the usbip server and get a list of available USB devices: usbip -l 192.168.0.100 (192.168.0.100 is the IP address of the usbip server.) You should find the SanDisk USB flash drive in the output (BUSID 1-1): root@client1:~# usbip -l 192.168.0.100 - 192.168.0.100 1-1: SanDisk Corp. : Cruzer Micro Flash Drive (0781:5151) : /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:07.2/usb1/1-1 : (Defined at Interface level) (00/00/00) : 0 - Mass Storage / SCSI / Bulk (Zip) (08/06/50) root@client1:~# To attach that device to the client, run: usbip -a 192.168.0.100 1-1 root@client1:~# usbip -a 192.168.0.100 1-1 8 ports available port 0 attached root@client1:~# Now run... lsusb ... and you should find the remote USB device in the output on the client: root@client1:~# lsusb Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0781:5151 SanDisk Corp. Cruzer Micro 256/512MB Flash Drive Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub root@client1:~# You can now use the remote USB device as if it was a local USB device (e.g. mount it, format it, write to it, read form it, etc.). 4 Detaching A Remote USB Device A remote USB device can be detached as follows: client1: Run... usbip --port ... to find out the port that the remote USB device uses on the client - in this case it's port 00: root@client1:~# usbip --port 8 ports available Port 00: <Port in Use> at High Speed(480Mbps) SanDisk Corp. : Cruzer Micro 256/512MB Flash Drive (0781:5151) 1-1 -> usbip://192.168.0.100:3240/1-1 (remote devid 00010002 (bus/dev 001/002)) 1-1:1.0 used by usb-storage /sys/class/bsg/1:0:0:0/device /sys/class/scsi_device/1:0:0:0/device /sys/class/scsi_disk/1:0:0:0/device /sys/class/scsi_host/host1/device /sys/class/usb_endpoint/usbdev1.4_ep02/device /sys/class/usb_endpoint/usbdev1.4_ep81/device /sys/block/sdb/device Port 01: <Port Available> Port 02: <Port Available> Port 03: <Port Available> Port 04: <Port Available> Port 05: <Port Available> Port 06: <Port Available> Port 07: <Port Available> root@client1:~# We need the port number to detach the device: usbip -d 00 root@client1:~# usbip -d 00 8 ports available port 0 detached root@client1:~# On the server, we use the BUSID (1-1) to bind the USB device to the local system (the --other switch binds the device to the local system so that it is not available over the network anymore): server1: usbip_bind_driver --other 1-1 root@server1:~# usbip_bind_driver --other 1-1 ** (process:7333): DEBUG: write "del 1-1" to /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usbip/match_busid ** Message: bind 1-1 to other drivers than usbip, complete! root@server1:~# Now go back to the client and check if the remote USB device is still available: client1: lsusb If all goes well, it shouldn't be listed anymore: root@client1:~# lsusb Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub root@client1:~# 5 Links - USB/IP Project: http://usbip.sourceforge.net/ - Ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/ Copyright © 2010 Falko Timme All Rights Reserved.

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x2go client for Ubuntu ARM?
by Jo-Erlend Schinstad 23 Sep '10

23 Sep '10

I'm currently working on the IGEPv2 board, and it's mostly working. I'd really like to see how well it works with x2go. Is there any packages for Ubuntu ARM? Thanks, Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Re: [X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 23
by brian mullan 23 Sep '10

23 Sep '10

I've tried nearly all of the leading remote desktop technologies that I could find. Remote Video is hard to improve on any of them without taking a different approach that frame buffer forwarding. So NoMachine's NX, Citrix's remote desktop technology etc all are limited by bandwidth constraints of trying to push full motion video frame buffers across a WAN link.. no matter how good the compression. Which by the way also affects video quality because of delay. There are solutions out there that are trying to address this in a different architectural way such as the Spice client & server architecture which does the video processing at the client and more or less sends gui control cmds over the net. There is also PCoIP (PC over IP) which works very well at full motion video and also 3D video BUT it requires hardware installed at the server side and also a PCoIP card at the Client side... so its not cheap. I think there are 2 other things that should impact the performance current NX related solutions: 1) I recently read that several NX solution vendors are now using *libjpeg-turbo *instead of the older libjpeg. *http://libjpeg-turbo.virtualgl.org/* * It's a high-speed version of libjpeg based on libjpeg/SIMD but with additional optimizations and support for 64-bit platforms (and neatly* * packaged into an SDK that can install on most types of x86/x86-64 systems.) It's 2-4x faster than libjpeg and GPL-compatible, so I would* * imagine that NX related remote desktop solutions like x2go, FreeNX and NX from NoMachine itself woul all benefit from it performance-wise.* *NOTE: when I first tried libjpeg-turbo I installed it only on the client and I didn't seem much if any change. However I recently learned that actually has to be innstalled on BOTH server and client to see the performance benefit but in a recent test I saw the results of increased performance 180%. BUT - I'd still recommend running Browser based video like YouTube off of the local Client machine instead of over the Internet from a remote desktop. * *2) HTML 5 with its enhanced support for multimedia (video & audio)* * Brian * > > Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 21:56 -0600 schrieb Dimitris Anogiatis: > > Dear List, > > > > > > Does anyone know of any advantages from installing a hardware ssh (or > > crypto) accelleration device on a server machine running x2go? > > For example I've tried to tweak my SSH server but despite some > > improvements in responsiveness video playback (I tried a youtube > > video) is still choppy. > > > > > > Would a device like that help or does x2go's design not allow it to > > benefit from such an enhancement? > > > > > > I'm using my x2go client from a remote location using wifi and not in > > a LAN. > > > > > > Regards, > > Dimitris > > _______________________________________________ > > X2go-dev mailing list > > X2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > > > **************************************** >

2 1

Installing on Ubuntu Lucid/KDE4?
by Matthew Macdonald-Wallace 23 Sep '10

23 Sep '10

Hi all, I've been setting up a thin-client solution based upon x2go and I'm interested in seeing if it will work with KDE4 on Ubuntu Lucid/Maverick. The issue I've run into is when installing the x2goldapadmin tools the installation borks out stating that kcontrol is not available. Does anyone know if packages are available for the above combination? Thanks, Matt

2 1

GPL violations
by Jörg Sawatzki 23 Sep '10

23 Sep '10

Hey list, I just got an email back from Heinz - a private mail! You know that I have been discussing about the plugin and sources with him and Alex on this list for a couple of months now. Other people have asked as well where the sources for the plugin are. Obviously they think that I cannot read C++ code and sent me the link to the plugin.cpp source (http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplugin/) again - in the hope that I believe them. But unfortunately I had a look into the code (trying to build it) and saw that it executes a binary: an extended version of x2goclient with heaps of new command line options. Asking for the source (which is your and my right according to GPL) I got one of these famous excuses saying "oh, we are in the process of changing to QTBrowserPlugin" and so on. In short: 99% of x2goplugin's sources are not published - this affects (modified and not modified) third-party components as well. Everybody who publically distrubtes GPL software in binary form and does NOT provide a link to the sources violates the license. The GPL doesn't say "if you have time and the weather is nice you can publish the sources if you want to". Therefore I would not recommend anybody to use the plugin in a production environment and integrate it into any project! It will be you who will get into court if one of your customers enforces his GPL rights and you have distributed it in your project. Just to let you know: I feel a bit fooled with all the excuses and that they try to somehow get around legal requirements by sending me some stuff that's only a 7.5K file wrapping around the actual component. In my opinion, the way they deal with community input/ideas/contributions is ignorance. Nothing of the critics and proposals was taken seriously. We still don't have a GIT repo - and that would take them 5 minutes or less! But that's alright - we don't have to have git. But we HAVE to follow legal requirements in the GPL. And not next year, but NOW! I spent a lot of time and energy into this and the result: I am maintaining my own python code externally now, because they don't let me contirubte! And the worst result: I am frustrated as hell, that I spend months waiting and writing dozens of mails to enforce my rights that I have by law. After all, I'd just like to inform all of you, that I am going to report this to gpl-violations.org as after explaining it again and again I still see no change. I'll inform NoMachine as well and advise them to enforce their legal rights as well - it is their code as well! I am sorry for bothering you with this, but I think it is important to draw things like this into plubic attention Jörg

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Re: [X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20
by brian mullan 22 Sep '10

22 Sep '10

Joerg You just said in one of your responses... "*I am asking for the source for a month or two*".. Okay... - Alex was on vacation a month ago. - Heinz is on vacation now - each was 1 month off. I know it was thoughtless of them to take vacations and I'm sorry their responsiveness didn't meet your needs. You DO have choices... 1. wait until the new x2go is actually released and then see if you can get what you want 2. go elsewhere and find another solution such as: - NoMachine's NX v4.0 is do out soon - FreeNX - NeatX - or look into the Spice client & server software from Red Hat. Thanks for your comments and opinions but I'm not sure the discussion is very productive at this point and perhaps the forum could go back to answering other questions? Brian On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:18 PM, <x2go-dev-request(a)lists.berlios.de> wrote: > Send X2go-dev mailing list submissions to > x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > x2go-dev-request(a)lists.berlios.de > > You can reach the person managing the list at > x2go-dev-owner(a)lists.berlios.de > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of X2go-dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (J?rg Sawatzki) > 2. Re: GPL violations (das.t) > 3. Re: GPL violations (J?rg Sawatzki) > 4. Re: GPL violations (John A. Sullivan III) > 5. Re: Plugin building (Oleksandr Shneyder) > 6. Re: Plugin building (John A. Sullivan III) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:02:56 +0200 > From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki(a)web.de> > To: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 > Message-ID: <1285189376.3097.408.camel@asus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > They are violating the GPL and the philosphy of OSS for months and you > say: give them a break! Great! > > A lot of people on this list seem to have the opinion that Alex and > Heinz are so great and they work is so valuable that they don't need to > follow law and order today...but maybe tomorrow? > > What would you do if you have asked for sources for months? You won't > say: Oh well, give them a break! > > There is absolutely NO way around it: Even if they were called Barrack > Obama and Bill Gates, they would need to fullfill the requirements of > the license. > > It is sad that lots of people try to find weird reasons why these two > guys don't have to follow the same laws and duties as everybody else > does. > > J?rg > > Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 16:43 -0400 schrieb brian mullan: > > Joerg > > > > I agree with John in his view of Hienz and Alex. They are good folks > > BUT everyone has to remember they are ONLY 2 people ! > > > > They have a separate life where they have to earn money to support > > themselves & families too. > > > > x2go is something they have dedicated themselves to because it aids > > them in their other income related activities. > > > > There's an old saying: > > > > Nothings impossible for those that > > don't do the work. > > > > Given that Heinz and Alex have been working for the past year to > > create this new release of x2go ... again while working on their > > day jobs ... oh, and while building the new x2go wiki etc. > > > > Now that they are in what is hoped to be the final stages and frankly > > I'd rather they focus on that and worry about where to post the > > source code when they have some breathing space. > > > > Give them a break is my vote. > > > > Brian Mullan > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 14:51:42 -0400 > > From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan(a)opensourcedevel.com> > > To: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations > > Message-ID: <1285181502.3417.19.camel@localhost> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > > > On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 19:47 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki wrote: > > > Hey list, > > > > > > I just got an email back from Heinz - a private mail! > > > You know that I have been discussing about the plugin and > > sources with him and Alex on this list for a couple of months > > now. > > > Other people have asked as well where the sources for the > > plugin are. > > > > > > Obviously they think that I cannot read C++ code and sent me > > the link to the plugin.cpp source > > (http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplugin/) again - > > > in the hope that I believe them. But unfortunately I had a > > look into the code (trying to build it) and saw that it > > executes a binary: an extended > > > version of x2goclient with heaps of new command line > > options. Asking for the source (which is your and my right > > according to GPL) I > > > got one of these famous excuses saying "oh, we are in the > > process of changing to QTBrowserPlugin" and so on. > > > > > > In short: 99% of x2goplugin's sources are not published - > > this affects (modified and not modified) third-party > > components as well. > > > Everybody who publically distrubtes GPL software in binary > > form and does NOT provide a link to the sources violates the > > license. The GPL doesn't > > > say "if you have time and the weather is nice you can > > publish the sources if you want to". > > > > > > Therefore I would not recommend anybody to use the plugin in > > a production environment and integrate it into any project! It > > will be you > > > who will get into court if one of your customers enforces > > his GPL rights and you have distributed it in your project. > > > > > > Just to let you know: I feel a bit fooled with all the > > excuses and that they try to somehow get around legal > > requirements by sending me some > > > stuff that's only a 7.5K file wrapping around the actual > > component. > > > > > > In my opinion, the way they deal with community > > input/ideas/contributions is ignorance. Nothing of the critics > > and > > > proposals was taken seriously. We still don't have a GIT > > repo - and that would take them 5 minutes or less! > > > But that's alright - we don't have to have git. But we HAVE > > to follow legal requirements in the GPL. And not next year, > > but NOW! > > > > > > I spent a lot of time and energy into this and the result: I > > am maintaining my own python code externally now, because they > > don't let me > > > contirubte! And the worst result: I am frustrated as hell, > > that I spend months waiting and writing dozens of mails to > > enforce my rights that I > > > have by law. > > > > > > After all, I'd just like to inform all of you, that I am > > going to report this to gpl-violations.org as after explaining > > it again and again I still see no change. > > > I'll inform NoMachine as well and advise them to enforce > > their legal rights as well - it is their code as well! > > > > > > I am sorry for bothering you with this, but I think it is > > important to draw things like this into plubic attention > > > > > > <snip> > > > > Hello, Joerg. I've listened to you very patiently on this > > list for a while now because you do contribute and help and > > you are correct about > > the GPL. I, too, am frustrated about the lack of access to all > > the source and the difficulty in finding the source that is > > available > > (although less so than you because I have not had the time > > that I wish I had to look into the sources and contribute > > more). > > > > However, I believe you are seriously misreading Heinz (with > > whom I have now worked for a couple of years) and Oleksandr. > > Yes, they should (make > > that "must") publish the code but I also realize they are two > > honest and sincere fellows with full time jobs outside of X2Go > > who have given us an > > enormous project with no significant financial backing of > > which I'm aware. Sometimes there are just not enough hours in > > the day (week, > > month) to get it all done. Perhaps we may disagree with their > > priorities but let's not think there is some malicious, hidden > > agenda. > > Receiving such emails probably does more to make them wonder > > why they ever launched this project than it does to help the > > situation. > > > > I am painfully familiar with being a completely overwhelmed > > open source maintainer. Sometimes there is not even enough > > time to enable > > volunteers who are willing to help (set up git, wiki, code, > > etc.) to help. It can just feel completely overwhelming. So > > let's please > > contribute, guide, even positively correct but let's not jump > > up and down on the dev's heads. That doesn't help at all. I'm > > am sincerely > > grateful for what Heinz and Oleksandr have done despite my > > concerns > > which are very close to yours. Peace - John > > > > PS - regarding the plugin specifically, I believe they have > > made it clear that the plugin is NOT released. They have > > kindly responded to > > requests for access to the plugin by list members by making it > > available. Perhaps now they wish they had not been so kind > > and kept it > > under wraps until it was ready for release including source. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > X2go-dev mailing list > > X2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:04:56 +0200 (CEST) > From: "das.t" <tobias(a)tonstrom.de> > To: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations > Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1009222301200.10671(a)tobea.knuff.daheim> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give us a PREVEW > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing has been > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am _more_than_sure_ that > we _are_ going to get the source code. > > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on vacation, so > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work now as i > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!! > > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts - fine, then go > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more than enough in > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely unnecessarily > rude manner. > > if you think a project is rubish, do something better. > > enough said. i am off this threat now. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:26:30 +0200 > From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki(a)web.de> > To: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations > Message-ID: <1285190790.3097.448.camel@asus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Tobias, > > it is very nice that you want to protect the two. > Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs" people because > he wants to get his right. > I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when people tell me > heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law... > > I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the build > environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it to a > webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would absolutely > fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever have been > complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE MINUTE to > follow the laws and license requirements? > > And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have downloaded right now. > And not the code of a polished release that comes out next year or so! > I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next release and not > after! > > But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I fight for my > right. > > > J?rg > > > Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t: > > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give us a PREVEW > > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing has been > > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am _more_than_sure_ that > > we _are_ going to get the source code. > > > > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on vacation, so > > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work now as i > > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!! > > > > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts - fine, then go > > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more than enough > in > > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely unnecessarily > > rude manner. > > > > if you think a project is rubish, do something better. > > > > enough said. i am off this threat now. > > _______________________________________________ > > X2go-dev mailing list > > X2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:01:10 -0400 > From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan(a)opensourcedevel.com> > To: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations > Message-ID: <1285192870.3417.29.camel@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > We're not treating you like an idiot for correctly pointing out the > things that should be done; we are grateful for that. We're treating > you like an idiot for the way you are going about it. > > Yes, they should follow the requirements of the GPL. Yes, they did not > have to accede to the many requests to have access to the plugin before > they were really ready to give either the binaries or the source to > everyone. Yes, they did not have to share any of this project but could > have kept it as a simple in-house project. Given all of of those yeses, > I do eagerly await the release of the source and will wait until it is > released realizing that the delay hurts me but not more than not having > the project at all. In fact, I eagerly await the time when our business > turns cash positive so we can financially support the project. If they > were a corporation making a profit off the backs of open source > developers and hoarding the source code for nefarious reasons, I'd be > far less patient. If you are tired of waiting, go away. Peace - John > > On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 23:26 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki wrote: > > Tobias, > > > > it is very nice that you want to protect the two. > > Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs" people because > > he wants to get his right. > > I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when people tell me > > heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law... > > > > I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the build > > environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it to a > > webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would absolutely > > fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever have been > > complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE MINUTE to > > follow the laws and license requirements? > > > > And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have downloaded right now. > > And not the code of a polished release that comes out next year or so! > > I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next release and not > > after! > > > > But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I fight for my > > right. > > > > > > J?rg > > > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t: > > > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give us a > PREVEW > > > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing has been > > > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am _more_than_sure_ that > > > we _are_ going to get the source code. > > > > > > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on vacation, > so > > > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work now as i > > > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!! > > > > > > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts - fine, then go > > > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more than enough > in > > > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely unnecessarily > > > rude manner. > > > > > > if you think a project is rubish, do something better. > > > > > > enough said. i am off this threat now. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > X2go-dev mailing list > > > X2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > X2go-dev mailing list > > X2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:02:26 +0200 > From: Oleksandr Shneyder <oleksandr.shneyder(a)obviously-nice.de> > To: x2go-dev(a)lists.berlios.de > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building > Message-ID: <4C9A7CF2.9030400(a)obviously-nice.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > J?rg Sawatzki schrieb: > > Hi Heinz, Alex and list, > > > > Hello J?rg, list > > Please excuse us, that we cannot answer on all of you e-mails, but we > have a lot of stress with our jobs, vacations and developing new version > of x2go. We will try to answer in this e-mail on some of your questions > that you asked in the mailing list. > > > As you told me some days ago, the plugin source is here: > > http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplug/ > > > > That is indeed true - but where's the rest of it? As far as I can tell > > from the code, it starts an instance of x2goclient with some "secret" > > command line options. Where is that modified x2goclient's source? It's > > not the 3.01 x2goclient that is floating around around somewhere in > > x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb, is it? > > There is no "modified x2goclient's source". We have only plugin and > x2goclient which embedding itself in Firefox. You can always download > sources of all software which we developing. All our solutions are open > and we have no secrets from our community. The newest "testing" version > of x2go client(including source code) is here: > http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb/pool-heuler/x2goclient/ > All of that stuff is testing. We working on x2go Plugin based on > QtBrowserPlugin. If we will satisfied with it, there will be only one > source tree for client and plugin. > > > > here is a small FAQ: > > Q: Where is a source code of X2goclient for Windows? > A: There is a only one source tree of x2goclient for windows, linux and > mac. > > Q: Why x2goclient don't use libssh or shared ssh connection instead of > starting a lot of ssh connections? > A: There are several reasons not to use shared connections. X2go client > starting ssh to run some commands on server. But also x2goclient > starting a couple of ssh-tunnels and reverse ssh-tunnels. All client > ssh-connections have the same options as a master connection. This make > impossible to use shared ssh connections to create reverse tunnels. We > are testing now if libssh can do all this stuff in one connection and > how stable it running on all platforms. If all tests with multiply ssh > tunnels and reverse tunnels running at the same time will be successful, > we will integrate libssh in x2goclient. > > Q: Why x2goclient-cli have not many features of x2goclient, not > finishing all child processes, etc? > A: We have wrote x2goclient-cli only for purposes to testing x2goserver. > Last changes which we made on this package are dated with 15. Sep. 2009. > We have no planes to develop other clients than Qt X2go Client. But I > wish a lot of success to all of your who want to develop other clients > for x2go (for example J?rg with his pyx2go). I only hope that those > clients will stay compatible to x2go. If we have more time, we will help > you with a pleasure. But unfortunately, now we have not enough time even > to comment all e-mails in our mailing list. > > Q: Where is a git ????!!!!!! > A: Coming soon. I promise. > > Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all this time? > A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better. > QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem with windows > clipboard is our main occupation at this time. > > I hope with this E-mail we have answered on some of your questions. > > Yours sincerely, > Alex and Heinz > > PS: > Ugly English is only from Alex, not from Heinz. I hope you can still > understand all what I have wrote :) > > -- > Oleksandr Shneyder > Dipl. Informatik > X2go Core Developer Team > > email: oleksandr.shneyder(a)obviously-nice.de > web: www.obviously-nice.de > > --> X2go - everywhere@home > >

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Plugin building
by Jörg Sawatzki 22 Sep '10

22 Sep '10

Hi Heinz, Alex and list, as there are lots of questions and wishes arising on this list and by my customers, I'd like to build my own version of x2goplugin and x2goclient to be able to play around and implement new things. As you told me some days ago, the plugin source is here: http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplug/ That is indeed true - but where's the rest of it? As far as I can tell from the code, it starts an instance of x2goclient with some "secret" command line options. Where is that modified x2goclient's source? It's not the 3.01 x2goclient that is floating around around somewhere in x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb, is it? Thanks, Jörg

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x2go-dev September 2010