[X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20

Jörg Sawatzki joerg.sawatzki at web.de
Thu Sep 23 01:48:56 CEST 2010


You forgot

3. Fight for my right and get the sources through justice court :P

The only thing that was thoughtless was to publish a GPLed binary
without the sources. I'd as well do that and then go on vacation for two
months until I get an invitation to the court! It's so cooool to be in a
case!

They are project leaders and they have to think about the consequences
of their action before. That's all I want to say.

They should be familiar with the license and either publish a) nothing
or b) binary + source!

But maybe I expect to much from an OSS project leader :P

Jörg


Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 19:24 -0400 schrieb brian mullan:
> Joerg
> 
> You just said in  one of your responses... 
> 
>         "I am asking for the source for a month or two"..  
> Okay...
>       * Alex was on vacation a month ago.
>       * Heinz is on vacation now 
>       * each was 1 month off.
> I know it was thoughtless of them to take vacations and I'm sorry
> their responsiveness didn't meet your needs.
> 
> You DO have choices...
>      1. wait until the new x2go is actually released and then see if
>         you can get what you want
>      2. go elsewhere and find another solution such as:
>               * NoMachine's NX v4.0 is do out soon
>               * FreeNX 
>               * NeatX
>               * or look into the Spice client & server software from
>                 Red Hat.
> Thanks for your comments and opinions but I'm not sure the discussion
> is very productive at this point
> and perhaps the forum could go back to answering other questions?
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:18 PM, <x2go-dev-request at lists.berlios.de>
> wrote:
>         Send X2go-dev mailing list submissions to
>                x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         
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>         
>         When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>         specific
>         than "Re: Contents of X2go-dev digest..."
>         
>         
>         Today's Topics:
>         
>           1. Re: X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (J?rg Sawatzki)
>           2. Re: GPL violations (das.t)
>           3. Re: GPL violations (J?rg Sawatzki)
>           4. Re: GPL violations (John A. Sullivan III)
>           5. Re: Plugin building (Oleksandr Shneyder)
>           6. Re: Plugin building (John A. Sullivan III)
>         
>         
>         ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>         
>         Message: 1
>         Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:02:56 +0200
>         From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki at web.de>
>         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18
>         Message-ID: <1285189376.3097.408.camel at asus>
>         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>         
>         They are violating the GPL and the philosphy of OSS for months
>         and you
>         say: give them a break! Great!
>         
>         A lot of people on this list seem to have the opinion that
>         Alex and
>         Heinz are so great and they work is so valuable that they
>         don't need to
>         follow law and order today...but maybe tomorrow?
>         
>         What would you do if you have asked for sources for months?
>         You won't
>         say: Oh well, give them a break!
>         
>         There is absolutely NO way around it: Even if they were called
>         Barrack
>         Obama and Bill Gates, they would need to fullfill the
>         requirements of
>         the license.
>         
>         It is sad that lots of people try to find weird reasons why
>         these two
>         guys don't have to follow the same laws and duties as
>         everybody else
>         does.
>         
>         J?rg
>         
>         Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 16:43 -0400 schrieb brian mullan:
>         > Joerg
>         >
>         > I agree with John in his view of Hienz and Alex.   They are
>         good folks
>         > BUT everyone has to remember they are ONLY 2 people !
>         >
>         > They have a separate life where they have to earn money to
>         support
>         > themselves & families too.
>         >
>         > x2go is something they have dedicated themselves to because
>         it aids
>         > them in their other income related activities.
>         >
>         > There's an old saying:
>         >
>         >                                     Nothings impossible for
>         those that
>         > don't do the work.
>         >
>         > Given that Heinz and Alex have been working for the past
>         year to
>         > create this new release of x2go ... again while working on
>         their
>         > day jobs ... oh, and while building the new x2go wiki etc.
>         >
>         > Now that they are in what is hoped to be the final stages
>         and frankly
>         > I'd rather they focus on that and worry about where to post
>         the
>         > source code when they have some breathing space.
>         >
>         > Give them a break is my vote.
>         >
>         > Brian Mullan
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >         ------------------------------
>         >
>         >         Message: 3
>         >         Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 14:51:42 -0400
>         >         From: "John A. Sullivan III"
>         <jsullivan at opensourcedevel.com>
>         >         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         >         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
>         >         Message-ID: <1285181502.3417.19.camel at localhost>
>         >         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>         >
>         >         On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 19:47 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki
>         wrote:
>         >         > Hey list,
>         >         >
>         >         > I just got an email back from Heinz - a private
>         mail!
>         >         > You know that I have been discussing about the
>         plugin and
>         >         sources with him and Alex on this list for a couple
>         of months
>         >         now.
>         >         > Other people have asked as well where the sources
>         for the
>         >         plugin are.
>         >         >
>         >         > Obviously they think that I cannot read C++ code
>         and sent me
>         >         the link to the plugin.cpp source
>         >         (http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplugin/) again -
>         >         > in the hope that I believe them. But unfortunately
>         I had a
>         >         look into the code (trying to build it) and saw that
>         it
>         >         executes a binary: an extended
>         >         > version of x2goclient with heaps of new command
>         line
>         >         options.   Asking for the source (which is your and
>         my right
>         >         according to GPL) I
>         >         > got one of these famous excuses saying "oh, we are
>         in the
>         >         process of changing to QTBrowserPlugin" and so on.
>         >         >
>         >         > In short: 99% of x2goplugin's sources are not
>         published -
>         >         this affects (modified and not modified) third-party
>         >         components as well.
>         >         > Everybody who publically distrubtes GPL software
>         in binary
>         >         form and does NOT provide a link to the sources
>         violates the
>         >         license. The GPL doesn't
>         >         > say "if you have time and the weather is nice you
>         can
>         >         publish the sources if you want to".
>         >         >
>         >         > Therefore I would not recommend anybody to use the
>         plugin in
>         >         a production environment and integrate it into any
>         project! It
>         >         will be you
>         >         > who will get into court if one of your customers
>         enforces
>         >         his GPL rights and you have distributed it in your
>         project.
>         >         >
>         >         > Just to let you know: I feel a bit fooled with all
>         the
>         >         excuses and that they try to somehow get around
>         legal
>         >         requirements by sending me some
>         >         > stuff that's only a 7.5K file wrapping around the
>         actual
>         >         component.
>         >         >
>         >         > In my opinion, the way they deal with community
>         >         input/ideas/contributions is ignorance. Nothing of
>         the critics
>         >         and
>         >         > proposals was taken seriously. We still don't have
>         a GIT
>         >         repo - and that would take them 5 minutes or less!
>         >         > But that's alright - we don't have to have git.
>         But we HAVE
>         >         to follow legal requirements in the GPL. And not
>         next year,
>         >         but NOW!
>         >         >
>         >         > I spent a lot of time and energy into this and the
>         result: I
>         >         am maintaining my own python code externally now,
>         because they
>         >         don't let me
>         >         > contirubte! And the worst result: I am frustrated
>         as hell,
>         >         that I spend months waiting and writing dozens of
>         mails to
>         >         enforce my rights that I
>         >         > have by law.
>         >         >
>         >         > After all, I'd just like to inform all of you,
>         that I am
>         >         going to report this to gpl-violations.org as after
>         explaining
>         >         it again and again I still see no change.
>         >         > I'll inform NoMachine as well and advise them to
>         enforce
>         >         their legal rights as well - it is their code as
>         well!
>         >         >
>         >         > I am sorry for bothering you with this, but I
>         think it is
>         >         important to draw things like this into plubic
>         attention
>         >
>         >
>         >         <snip>
>         >
>         >         Hello, Joerg.  I've listened to you very patiently
>         on this
>         >         list for a while now because you do contribute and
>         help and
>         >         you are correct about
>         >         the GPL. I, too, am frustrated about the lack of
>         access to all
>         >         the source and the difficulty in finding the source
>         that is
>         >         available
>         >         (although less so than you because I have not had
>         the time
>         >         that I wish I had to look into the sources and
>         contribute
>         >         more).
>         >
>         >         However, I believe you are seriously misreading
>         Heinz (with
>         >         whom I have now worked for a couple of years) and
>         Oleksandr.
>         >          Yes, they should (make
>         >         that "must") publish the code but I also realize
>         they are two
>         >         honest and sincere fellows with full time jobs
>         outside of X2Go
>         >         who have given us an
>         >         enormous project with no significant financial
>         backing of
>         >         which I'm aware.  Sometimes there are just not
>         enough hours in
>         >         the day (week,
>         >         month) to get it all done.  Perhaps we may disagree
>         with their
>         >         priorities but let's not think there is some
>         malicious, hidden
>         >         agenda.
>         >         Receiving such emails probably does more to make
>         them wonder
>         >         why they ever launched this project than it does to
>         help the
>         >         situation.
>         >
>         >         I am painfully familiar with being a completely
>         overwhelmed
>         >         open source maintainer.  Sometimes there is not even
>         enough
>         >         time to enable
>         >         volunteers who are willing to help (set up git,
>         wiki, code,
>         >         etc.) to help.  It can just feel completely
>         overwhelming.  So
>         >         let's please
>         >         contribute, guide, even positively correct but let's
>         not jump
>         >         up and down on the dev's heads. That doesn't help at
>         all.  I'm
>         >         am sincerely
>         >         grateful for what Heinz and Oleksandr have done
>         despite my
>         >         concerns
>         >         which are very close to yours.  Peace - John
>         >
>         >         PS - regarding the plugin specifically, I believe
>         they have
>         >         made it clear that the plugin is NOT released.  They
>         have
>         >         kindly responded to
>         >         requests for access to the plugin by list members by
>         making it
>         >         available.  Perhaps now they wish they had not been
>         so kind
>         >         and kept it
>         >         under wraps until it was ready for release including
>         source.
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > _______________________________________________
>         > X2go-dev mailing list
>         > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         ------------------------------
>         
>         Message: 2
>         Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:04:56 +0200 (CEST)
>         From: "das.t" <tobias at tonstrom.de>
>         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
>         Message-ID:
>         <alpine.DEB.1.10.1009222301200.10671 at tobea.knuff.daheim>
>         Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>         
>         the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give
>         us a PREVEW
>         of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing
>         has been
>         released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am
>         _more_than_sure_ that
>         we _are_ going to get the source code.
>         
>         if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on
>         vacation, so
>         there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work
>         now as i
>         know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
>         
>         if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts -
>         fine, then go
>         for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more
>         than enough in
>         oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely
>         unnecessarily
>         rude manner.
>         
>         if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
>         
>         enough said. i am off this threat now.
>         
>         
>         ------------------------------
>         
>         Message: 3
>         Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:26:30 +0200
>         From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki at web.de>
>         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
>         Message-ID: <1285190790.3097.448.camel at asus>
>         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>         
>         Tobias,
>         
>         it is very nice that you want to protect the two.
>         Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs"
>         people because
>         he wants to get his right.
>         I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when people
>         tell me
>         heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law...
>         
>         I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the
>         build
>         environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it to
>         a
>         webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would
>         absolutely
>         fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever
>         have been
>         complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE
>         MINUTE to
>         follow the laws and license requirements?
>         
>         And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have downloaded
>         right now.
>         And not the code of a polished release that comes out next
>         year or so!
>         I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next
>         release and not
>         after!
>         
>         But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I
>         fight for my
>         right.
>         
>         
>         J?rg
>         
>         
>         Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t:
>         > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to
>         give us a PREVEW
>         > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing
>         has been
>         > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am
>         _more_than_sure_ that
>         > we _are_ going to get the source code.
>         >
>         > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on
>         vacation, so
>         > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to
>         work now as i
>         > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
>         >
>         > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts -
>         fine, then go
>         > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more
>         than enough in
>         > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely
>         unnecessarily
>         > rude manner.
>         >
>         > if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
>         >
>         > enough said. i am off this threat now.
>         > _______________________________________________
>         > X2go-dev mailing list
>         > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         ------------------------------
>         
>         Message: 4
>         Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:01:10 -0400
>         From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan at opensourcedevel.com>
>         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
>         Message-ID: <1285192870.3417.29.camel at localhost>
>         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>         
>         We're not treating you like an idiot for correctly pointing
>         out the
>         things that should be done; we are grateful for that.  We're
>         treating
>         you like an idiot for the way you are going about it.
>         
>         Yes, they should follow the requirements of the GPL.  Yes,
>         they did not
>         have to accede to the many requests to have access to the
>         plugin before
>         they were really ready to give either the binaries or the
>         source to
>         everyone.  Yes, they did not have to share any of this project
>         but could
>         have kept it as a simple in-house project.  Given all of of
>         those yeses,
>         I do eagerly await the release of the source and will wait
>         until it is
>         released realizing that the delay hurts me but not more than
>         not having
>         the project at all.  In fact, I eagerly await the time when
>         our business
>         turns cash positive so we can financially support the
>         project.  If they
>         were a corporation making a profit off the backs of open
>         source
>         developers and hoarding the source code for nefarious reasons,
>         I'd be
>         far less patient.  If you are tired of waiting, go away.
>          Peace - John
>         
>         On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 23:26 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki wrote:
>         > Tobias,
>         >
>         > it is very nice that you want to protect the two.
>         > Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs"
>         people because
>         > he wants to get his right.
>         > I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when
>         people tell me
>         > heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law...
>         >
>         > I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the
>         build
>         > environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it
>         to a
>         > webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would
>         absolutely
>         > fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever
>         have been
>         > complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE
>         MINUTE to
>         > follow the laws and license requirements?
>         >
>         > And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have
>         downloaded right now.
>         > And not the code of a polished release that comes out next
>         year or so!
>         > I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next
>         release and not
>         > after!
>         >
>         > But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I
>         fight for my
>         > right.
>         >
>         >
>         > J?rg
>         >
>         >
>         > Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t:
>         > > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to
>         give us a PREVEW
>         > > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity.
>         nothing has been
>         > > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am
>         _more_than_sure_ that
>         > > we _are_ going to get the source code.
>         > >
>         > > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is
>         on vacation, so
>         > > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to
>         work now as i
>         > > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
>         > >
>         > > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts -
>         fine, then go
>         > > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing
>         more than enough in
>         > > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely
>         unnecessarily
>         > > rude manner.
>         > >
>         > > if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
>         > >
>         > > enough said. i am off this threat now.
>         > > _______________________________________________
>         > > X2go-dev mailing list
>         > > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>         >
>         >
>         > _______________________________________________
>         > X2go-dev mailing list
>         > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         ------------------------------
>         
>         Message: 5
>         Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:02:26 +0200
>         From: Oleksandr Shneyder
>         <oleksandr.shneyder at obviously-nice.de>
>         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building
>         Message-ID: <4C9A7CF2.9030400 at obviously-nice.de>
>         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>         
>         J?rg Sawatzki schrieb:
>         > Hi Heinz, Alex and list,
>         >
>         
>         Hello J?rg, list
>         
>         Please excuse us, that we cannot answer on all of you e-mails,
>         but we
>         have a lot of stress with our jobs, vacations and developing
>         new version
>         of x2go. We will try to answer in this e-mail on some of your
>         questions
>         that you asked in the mailing list.
>         
>         > As you told me some days ago, the plugin source is here:
>         > http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplug/
>         >
>         > That is indeed true - but where's the rest of it? As far as
>         I can tell
>         > from the code, it starts an instance of x2goclient with some
>         "secret"
>         > command line options. Where is that modified x2goclient's
>         source? It's
>         > not the 3.01 x2goclient that is floating around around
>         somewhere in
>         > x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb, is it?
>         
>         There is no "modified x2goclient's source". We have only
>         plugin and
>         x2goclient which embedding itself in Firefox. You can always
>         download
>         sources of all software  which we developing. All our
>         solutions are open
>         and we have no secrets from our community. The newest
>         "testing" version
>         of x2go client(including source code) is here:
>         http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb/pool-heuler/x2goclient/
>         All of that stuff is testing. We working on x2go Plugin based
>         on
>         QtBrowserPlugin. If we will satisfied with it, there will be
>         only one
>         source tree for client and plugin.
>         
>         
>         
>         here is a small FAQ:
>         
>         Q: Where is a source code of X2goclient for Windows?
>         A: There is a only one source tree of x2goclient for windows,
>         linux and
>         mac.
>         
>         Q: Why x2goclient don't use libssh or shared ssh connection
>         instead of
>         starting a lot of ssh connections?
>         A: There are several reasons not to use shared connections.
>         X2go client
>         starting ssh to run some commands on server. But also
>         x2goclient
>         starting a couple of ssh-tunnels and reverse ssh-tunnels. All
>         client
>         ssh-connections have the same options as a master connection.
>         This make
>         impossible to use shared ssh connections to create reverse
>         tunnels. We
>         are testing now if libssh can do all this stuff in one
>         connection and
>         how stable it running on all platforms. If all tests with
>         multiply ssh
>         tunnels and reverse tunnels running at the same time will be
>         successful,
>         we will integrate libssh in x2goclient.
>         
>         Q: Why x2goclient-cli have not many features of x2goclient,
>         not
>         finishing all child processes, etc?
>         A: We have wrote x2goclient-cli only for purposes to testing
>         x2goserver.
>         Last changes which we made on this package are dated with 15.
>         Sep. 2009.
>         We have no planes to develop other clients than Qt X2go
>         Client. But I
>         wish a lot of success to all of your who want to develop other
>         clients
>         for x2go (for example J?rg with his pyx2go). I only hope that
>         those
>         clients will stay compatible to x2go. If we have more time, we
>         will help
>         you with a pleasure. But unfortunately, now we have not enough
>         time even
>         to comment all e-mails in our mailing list.
>         
>         Q: Where is a git ????!!!!!!
>         A: Coming soon. I promise.
>         
>         Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all
>         this time?
>         A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better.
>         QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem
>         with windows
>         clipboard is our main occupation at this time.
>         
>         I hope with this E-mail we have answered on some of your
>         questions.
>         
>         Yours sincerely,
>         Alex and Heinz
>         
>         PS:
>         Ugly English is only from Alex, not from Heinz. I hope you can
>         still
>         understand all what I have wrote :)
>         
>         --
>         Oleksandr Shneyder
>         Dipl. Informatik
>         X2go Core Developer Team
>         
>         email:  oleksandr.shneyder at obviously-nice.de
>         web: www.obviously-nice.de
>         
>         --> X2go - everywhere at home
>         
>         -------------- next part --------------
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>         
>         ------------------------------
>         
>         Message: 6
>         Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:18:09 -0400
>         From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan at opensourcedevel.com>
>         To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building
>         Message-ID: <1285193889.3417.32.camel at localhost>
>         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>         
>         On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 00:02 +0200, Oleksandr Shneyder wrote:
>         > <snip>
>         
>         > Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all
>         this time?
>         > A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better.
>         > QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem
>         with windows
>         > clipboard is our main occupation at this time.
>         <snip>
>         A multi-browser client (QtBrowserPlugin), Windows full screen
>         and
>         clipboard are extremely high priorities for my company.  Thank
>         you for
>         focusing there - John
>         
>         
>         
>         ------------------------------
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         X2go-dev mailing list
>         X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>         https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>         
>         
>         End of X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20
>         ****************************************
> 
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