[X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20
Jörg Sawatzki
joerg.sawatzki at web.de
Thu Sep 23 01:48:56 CEST 2010
You forgot
3. Fight for my right and get the sources through justice court :P
The only thing that was thoughtless was to publish a GPLed binary
without the sources. I'd as well do that and then go on vacation for two
months until I get an invitation to the court! It's so cooool to be in a
case!
They are project leaders and they have to think about the consequences
of their action before. That's all I want to say.
They should be familiar with the license and either publish a) nothing
or b) binary + source!
But maybe I expect to much from an OSS project leader :P
Jörg
Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 19:24 -0400 schrieb brian mullan:
> Joerg
>
> You just said in one of your responses...
>
> "I am asking for the source for a month or two"..
> Okay...
> * Alex was on vacation a month ago.
> * Heinz is on vacation now
> * each was 1 month off.
> I know it was thoughtless of them to take vacations and I'm sorry
> their responsiveness didn't meet your needs.
>
> You DO have choices...
> 1. wait until the new x2go is actually released and then see if
> you can get what you want
> 2. go elsewhere and find another solution such as:
> * NoMachine's NX v4.0 is do out soon
> * FreeNX
> * NeatX
> * or look into the Spice client & server software from
> Red Hat.
> Thanks for your comments and opinions but I'm not sure the discussion
> is very productive at this point
> and perhaps the forum could go back to answering other questions?
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:18 PM, <x2go-dev-request at lists.berlios.de>
> wrote:
> Send X2go-dev mailing list submissions to
> x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
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> than "Re: Contents of X2go-dev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (J?rg Sawatzki)
> 2. Re: GPL violations (das.t)
> 3. Re: GPL violations (J?rg Sawatzki)
> 4. Re: GPL violations (John A. Sullivan III)
> 5. Re: Plugin building (Oleksandr Shneyder)
> 6. Re: Plugin building (John A. Sullivan III)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:02:56 +0200
> From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki at web.de>
> To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18
> Message-ID: <1285189376.3097.408.camel at asus>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> They are violating the GPL and the philosphy of OSS for months
> and you
> say: give them a break! Great!
>
> A lot of people on this list seem to have the opinion that
> Alex and
> Heinz are so great and they work is so valuable that they
> don't need to
> follow law and order today...but maybe tomorrow?
>
> What would you do if you have asked for sources for months?
> You won't
> say: Oh well, give them a break!
>
> There is absolutely NO way around it: Even if they were called
> Barrack
> Obama and Bill Gates, they would need to fullfill the
> requirements of
> the license.
>
> It is sad that lots of people try to find weird reasons why
> these two
> guys don't have to follow the same laws and duties as
> everybody else
> does.
>
> J?rg
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 16:43 -0400 schrieb brian mullan:
> > Joerg
> >
> > I agree with John in his view of Hienz and Alex. They are
> good folks
> > BUT everyone has to remember they are ONLY 2 people !
> >
> > They have a separate life where they have to earn money to
> support
> > themselves & families too.
> >
> > x2go is something they have dedicated themselves to because
> it aids
> > them in their other income related activities.
> >
> > There's an old saying:
> >
> > Nothings impossible for
> those that
> > don't do the work.
> >
> > Given that Heinz and Alex have been working for the past
> year to
> > create this new release of x2go ... again while working on
> their
> > day jobs ... oh, and while building the new x2go wiki etc.
> >
> > Now that they are in what is hoped to be the final stages
> and frankly
> > I'd rather they focus on that and worry about where to post
> the
> > source code when they have some breathing space.
> >
> > Give them a break is my vote.
> >
> > Brian Mullan
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 14:51:42 -0400
> > From: "John A. Sullivan III"
> <jsullivan at opensourcedevel.com>
> > To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
> > Message-ID: <1285181502.3417.19.camel at localhost>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> >
> > On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 19:47 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki
> wrote:
> > > Hey list,
> > >
> > > I just got an email back from Heinz - a private
> mail!
> > > You know that I have been discussing about the
> plugin and
> > sources with him and Alex on this list for a couple
> of months
> > now.
> > > Other people have asked as well where the sources
> for the
> > plugin are.
> > >
> > > Obviously they think that I cannot read C++ code
> and sent me
> > the link to the plugin.cpp source
> > (http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplugin/) again -
> > > in the hope that I believe them. But unfortunately
> I had a
> > look into the code (trying to build it) and saw that
> it
> > executes a binary: an extended
> > > version of x2goclient with heaps of new command
> line
> > options. Asking for the source (which is your and
> my right
> > according to GPL) I
> > > got one of these famous excuses saying "oh, we are
> in the
> > process of changing to QTBrowserPlugin" and so on.
> > >
> > > In short: 99% of x2goplugin's sources are not
> published -
> > this affects (modified and not modified) third-party
> > components as well.
> > > Everybody who publically distrubtes GPL software
> in binary
> > form and does NOT provide a link to the sources
> violates the
> > license. The GPL doesn't
> > > say "if you have time and the weather is nice you
> can
> > publish the sources if you want to".
> > >
> > > Therefore I would not recommend anybody to use the
> plugin in
> > a production environment and integrate it into any
> project! It
> > will be you
> > > who will get into court if one of your customers
> enforces
> > his GPL rights and you have distributed it in your
> project.
> > >
> > > Just to let you know: I feel a bit fooled with all
> the
> > excuses and that they try to somehow get around
> legal
> > requirements by sending me some
> > > stuff that's only a 7.5K file wrapping around the
> actual
> > component.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, the way they deal with community
> > input/ideas/contributions is ignorance. Nothing of
> the critics
> > and
> > > proposals was taken seriously. We still don't have
> a GIT
> > repo - and that would take them 5 minutes or less!
> > > But that's alright - we don't have to have git.
> But we HAVE
> > to follow legal requirements in the GPL. And not
> next year,
> > but NOW!
> > >
> > > I spent a lot of time and energy into this and the
> result: I
> > am maintaining my own python code externally now,
> because they
> > don't let me
> > > contirubte! And the worst result: I am frustrated
> as hell,
> > that I spend months waiting and writing dozens of
> mails to
> > enforce my rights that I
> > > have by law.
> > >
> > > After all, I'd just like to inform all of you,
> that I am
> > going to report this to gpl-violations.org as after
> explaining
> > it again and again I still see no change.
> > > I'll inform NoMachine as well and advise them to
> enforce
> > their legal rights as well - it is their code as
> well!
> > >
> > > I am sorry for bothering you with this, but I
> think it is
> > important to draw things like this into plubic
> attention
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Hello, Joerg. I've listened to you very patiently
> on this
> > list for a while now because you do contribute and
> help and
> > you are correct about
> > the GPL. I, too, am frustrated about the lack of
> access to all
> > the source and the difficulty in finding the source
> that is
> > available
> > (although less so than you because I have not had
> the time
> > that I wish I had to look into the sources and
> contribute
> > more).
> >
> > However, I believe you are seriously misreading
> Heinz (with
> > whom I have now worked for a couple of years) and
> Oleksandr.
> > Yes, they should (make
> > that "must") publish the code but I also realize
> they are two
> > honest and sincere fellows with full time jobs
> outside of X2Go
> > who have given us an
> > enormous project with no significant financial
> backing of
> > which I'm aware. Sometimes there are just not
> enough hours in
> > the day (week,
> > month) to get it all done. Perhaps we may disagree
> with their
> > priorities but let's not think there is some
> malicious, hidden
> > agenda.
> > Receiving such emails probably does more to make
> them wonder
> > why they ever launched this project than it does to
> help the
> > situation.
> >
> > I am painfully familiar with being a completely
> overwhelmed
> > open source maintainer. Sometimes there is not even
> enough
> > time to enable
> > volunteers who are willing to help (set up git,
> wiki, code,
> > etc.) to help. It can just feel completely
> overwhelming. So
> > let's please
> > contribute, guide, even positively correct but let's
> not jump
> > up and down on the dev's heads. That doesn't help at
> all. I'm
> > am sincerely
> > grateful for what Heinz and Oleksandr have done
> despite my
> > concerns
> > which are very close to yours. Peace - John
> >
> > PS - regarding the plugin specifically, I believe
> they have
> > made it clear that the plugin is NOT released. They
> have
> > kindly responded to
> > requests for access to the plugin by list members by
> making it
> > available. Perhaps now they wish they had not been
> so kind
> > and kept it
> > under wraps until it was ready for release including
> source.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > X2go-dev mailing list
> > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:04:56 +0200 (CEST)
> From: "das.t" <tobias at tonstrom.de>
> To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
> Message-ID:
> <alpine.DEB.1.10.1009222301200.10671 at tobea.knuff.daheim>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to give
> us a PREVEW
> of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing
> has been
> released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am
> _more_than_sure_ that
> we _are_ going to get the source code.
>
> if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on
> vacation, so
> there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to work
> now as i
> know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
>
> if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts -
> fine, then go
> for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more
> than enough in
> oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely
> unnecessarily
> rude manner.
>
> if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
>
> enough said. i am off this threat now.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:26:30 +0200
> From: J?rg Sawatzki <joerg.sawatzki at web.de>
> To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
> Message-ID: <1285190790.3097.448.camel at asus>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Tobias,
>
> it is very nice that you want to protect the two.
> Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs"
> people because
> he wants to get his right.
> I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when people
> tell me
> heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law...
>
> I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the
> build
> environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it to
> a
> webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would
> absolutely
> fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever
> have been
> complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE
> MINUTE to
> follow the laws and license requirements?
>
> And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have downloaded
> right now.
> And not the code of a polished release that comes out next
> year or so!
> I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next
> release and not
> after!
>
> But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I
> fight for my
> right.
>
>
> J?rg
>
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t:
> > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to
> give us a PREVEW
> > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity. nothing
> has been
> > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am
> _more_than_sure_ that
> > we _are_ going to get the source code.
> >
> > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is on
> vacation, so
> > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to
> work now as i
> > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
> >
> > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts -
> fine, then go
> > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing more
> than enough in
> > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely
> unnecessarily
> > rude manner.
> >
> > if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
> >
> > enough said. i am off this threat now.
> > _______________________________________________
> > X2go-dev mailing list
> > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:01:10 -0400
> From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan at opensourcedevel.com>
> To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] GPL violations
> Message-ID: <1285192870.3417.29.camel at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> We're not treating you like an idiot for correctly pointing
> out the
> things that should be done; we are grateful for that. We're
> treating
> you like an idiot for the way you are going about it.
>
> Yes, they should follow the requirements of the GPL. Yes,
> they did not
> have to accede to the many requests to have access to the
> plugin before
> they were really ready to give either the binaries or the
> source to
> everyone. Yes, they did not have to share any of this project
> but could
> have kept it as a simple in-house project. Given all of of
> those yeses,
> I do eagerly await the release of the source and will wait
> until it is
> released realizing that the delay hurts me but not more than
> not having
> the project at all. In fact, I eagerly await the time when
> our business
> turns cash positive so we can financially support the
> project. If they
> were a corporation making a profit off the backs of open
> source
> developers and hoarding the source code for nefarious reasons,
> I'd be
> far less patient. If you are tired of waiting, go away.
> Peace - John
>
> On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 23:26 +0200, J?rg Sawatzki wrote:
> > Tobias,
> >
> > it is very nice that you want to protect the two.
> > Oh yes, and I am a stupid idiot who unnecessarily "bugs"
> people because
> > he wants to get his right.
> > I sometimes wonder if we live in a banana republic when
> people tell me
> > heaps of reasons why they don't have to follow the law...
> >
> > I am asking for the source for a month or two. Taking the
> build
> > environment, putting it in a .tar archive and uploading it
> to a
> > webserver takes not more than ONE MINUTE and it would
> absolutely
> > fullfill the requirements of the GPL and I would never ever
> have been
> > complaining. Do I expect too much if I ask him to take ONE
> MINUTE to
> > follow the laws and license requirements?
> >
> > And btw. I want the code of the plugin that I have
> downloaded right now.
> > And not the code of a polished release that comes out next
> year or so!
> > I want to submit extensions and bugfixes BEFORE the next
> release and not
> > after!
> >
> > But thank you for treating me like an idiot just because I
> fight for my
> > right.
> >
> >
> > J?rg
> >
> >
> > Am Mittwoch, den 22.09.2010, 23:04 +0200 schrieb das.t:
> > > the developers were so nice and _due_to_great_demand_ to
> give us a PREVEW
> > > of what is going to come. this was pure generosity.
> nothing has been
> > > released, this is absolutely inofficial and i am
> _more_than_sure_ that
> > > we _are_ going to get the source code.
> > >
> > > if you are reading this list you will know that heinz is
> on vacation, so
> > > there will nothing happen right now. i do not want him to
> work now as i
> > > know how stressed he is. give him a rest!!!
> > >
> > > if you say x2go is rubish and can be done within minuts -
> fine, then go
> > > for it. but please do not bug people who are investing
> more than enough in
> > > oss! especially stop threatening them in this absolutely
> unnecessarily
> > > rude manner.
> > >
> > > if you think a project is rubish, do something better.
> > >
> > > enough said. i am off this threat now.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > X2go-dev mailing list
> > > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > X2go-dev mailing list
> > X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:02:26 +0200
> From: Oleksandr Shneyder
> <oleksandr.shneyder at obviously-nice.de>
> To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building
> Message-ID: <4C9A7CF2.9030400 at obviously-nice.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> J?rg Sawatzki schrieb:
> > Hi Heinz, Alex and list,
> >
>
> Hello J?rg, list
>
> Please excuse us, that we cannot answer on all of you e-mails,
> but we
> have a lot of stress with our jobs, vacations and developing
> new version
> of x2go. We will try to answer in this e-mail on some of your
> questions
> that you asked in the mailing list.
>
> > As you told me some days ago, the plugin source is here:
> > http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/mozplug/
> >
> > That is indeed true - but where's the rest of it? As far as
> I can tell
> > from the code, it starts an instance of x2goclient with some
> "secret"
> > command line options. Where is that modified x2goclient's
> source? It's
> > not the 3.01 x2goclient that is floating around around
> somewhere in
> > x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb, is it?
>
> There is no "modified x2goclient's source". We have only
> plugin and
> x2goclient which embedding itself in Firefox. You can always
> download
> sources of all software which we developing. All our
> solutions are open
> and we have no secrets from our community. The newest
> "testing" version
> of x2go client(including source code) is here:
> http://x2go.obviously-nice.de/deb/pool-heuler/x2goclient/
> All of that stuff is testing. We working on x2go Plugin based
> on
> QtBrowserPlugin. If we will satisfied with it, there will be
> only one
> source tree for client and plugin.
>
>
>
> here is a small FAQ:
>
> Q: Where is a source code of X2goclient for Windows?
> A: There is a only one source tree of x2goclient for windows,
> linux and
> mac.
>
> Q: Why x2goclient don't use libssh or shared ssh connection
> instead of
> starting a lot of ssh connections?
> A: There are several reasons not to use shared connections.
> X2go client
> starting ssh to run some commands on server. But also
> x2goclient
> starting a couple of ssh-tunnels and reverse ssh-tunnels. All
> client
> ssh-connections have the same options as a master connection.
> This make
> impossible to use shared ssh connections to create reverse
> tunnels. We
> are testing now if libssh can do all this stuff in one
> connection and
> how stable it running on all platforms. If all tests with
> multiply ssh
> tunnels and reverse tunnels running at the same time will be
> successful,
> we will integrate libssh in x2goclient.
>
> Q: Why x2goclient-cli have not many features of x2goclient,
> not
> finishing all child processes, etc?
> A: We have wrote x2goclient-cli only for purposes to testing
> x2goserver.
> Last changes which we made on this package are dated with 15.
> Sep. 2009.
> We have no planes to develop other clients than Qt X2go
> Client. But I
> wish a lot of success to all of your who want to develop other
> clients
> for x2go (for example J?rg with his pyx2go). I only hope that
> those
> clients will stay compatible to x2go. If we have more time, we
> will help
> you with a pleasure. But unfortunately, now we have not enough
> time even
> to comment all e-mails in our mailing list.
>
> Q: Where is a git ????!!!!!!
> A: Coming soon. I promise.
>
> Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all
> this time?
> A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better.
> QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem
> with windows
> clipboard is our main occupation at this time.
>
> I hope with this E-mail we have answered on some of your
> questions.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Alex and Heinz
>
> PS:
> Ugly English is only from Alex, not from Heinz. I hope you can
> still
> understand all what I have wrote :)
>
> --
> Oleksandr Shneyder
> Dipl. Informatik
> X2go Core Developer Team
>
> email: oleksandr.shneyder at obviously-nice.de
> web: www.obviously-nice.de
>
> --> X2go - everywhere at home
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:18:09 -0400
> From: "John A. Sullivan III" <jsullivan at opensourcedevel.com>
> To: x2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [X2go-dev] Plugin building
> Message-ID: <1285193889.3417.32.camel at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 00:02 +0200, Oleksandr Shneyder wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> > Q: What is current status of project? What are you doing all
> this time?
> > A: A lot of things. We are working hard to make x2go better.
> > QtBrowserPlugin, windows full screen mode, solving problem
> with windows
> > clipboard is our main occupation at this time.
> <snip>
> A multi-browser client (QtBrowserPlugin), Windows full screen
> and
> clipboard are extremely high priorities for my company. Thank
> you for
> focusing there - John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> X2go-dev mailing list
> X2go-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
>
>
> End of X2go-dev Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20
> ****************************************
>
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> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/x2go-dev
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