[X2Go-Commits] [[X2Go Wiki]] page changed: 2017-09:day-2017-09-28

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Old Revision: https://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/2017-09:day-2017-09-28?rev=1506623794
New Revision: https://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/2017-09:day-2017-09-28
Edit Summary: Add raw chat log.
User        : ionic

@@ -124,8 +124,372 @@
  
  required Documentation for testers -> Should be as simple as updating sources.list to a heuler+timestamp entry and running update, upgrade, dist-upgrade
  </code>
  ==== Raw Chat Log ====
- FIXME
+ 
  <file>
- ...log...
+ [20:38:02] < h1mg> OK, first Topic on the List: X2GoServer code updates in preparation of the upcoming release
+ [20:38:45] < h1mg> Who is the author of this topic?
+ [20:39:00] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg: I guess I will just do the introductions 
+ [20:39:13] < mikedep333> Is this
4.0.1.21 or 4.1.0.0?
+ [20:39:18] < h1mg> MeinNameIstRetro: go for it!
+ [20:39:43] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: I'd actually love to call it 5.0.0.0, but the version number is the least of our issues. ;)
+ [20:39:44] <@Ionic> that's a good question
+ [20:39:58] < mikedep333> MeinNameIstRetro: Regardless of the version number, we have to branches.
+ [20:40:16] < mikedep333> release/4.0.1.x is 4.0.1.21
+ [20:40:18] <@MeinNameIstRetro> So. We're aiming for a release by early December, so we can release in time for the Ubuntu 18.04 LTS freeze.
+ [20:40:24] < mikedep333> master is 4.1.0.0
+ [20:40:37] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Of course, if we can get the release out sooner, that's even better.
+ [20:40:55] < mikedep333> I really want to shore up support for GNOME Flashback before then.
+ [20:41:18] <@MeinNameIstRetro> To keep track of the release status, I would suggest creating a "master bug" and have the other release-critical bugs added as blockers to this bug.
+ [20:41:37] <
mikedep333> It relies on sysadmins disabling GLX in /etc/x2go/x2goagent.options but still.
+ [20:42:04] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Thing is, I'm not exactly skilled with our bugtracker. So can I assign creating these bugs to Ionic, or do we have another volunteer?
+ [20:43:03] < h1mg> *silence* -> I assume nobody?
+ [20:43:05] <@Ionic> that's quite easily done (a normal bug report with others set to block it AFAIK)
+ [20:43:31] <@Ionic> but the real question is whether you'd like to have 4.0.1.x or 4.1.0.0 released
+ [20:43:49] <@MeinNameIstRetro> I see that we have changes in Xinerama, plus several new features: "Keyboard Cloning", "Auto-Grab", "Input Lock"
+ [20:43:50] <@Ionic> arctica's nx-libs is only compatible with 4.1.0.0 so far
+ [20:43:56] < h1mg> Ionic: as it is a feature update and not only maintainance...
+ [20:44:06] < mikedep333> Ionic: Arctica's nx-libs is what's in debian & ubuntu.
+ [20:44:16] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: I want Arctica NX-Libs and thus I'd say 4.1.0.0
+
[20:44:41] <@Ionic> so two releases then
+ [20:44:51] < mikedep333> brb
+ [20:44:51] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Explain?
+ [20:45:06] <@Ionic> since there are still unreleased fixes (and fixes that don't really fix issues yet) in the current 4.1.0.x branch
+ [20:45:55] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: I don't think I understand what you're trying to tell me ...
+ [20:45:57] <@Ionic> keyboard cloning, autograb and input lock are currently WIP features that aren't part of arctica's nx-libs (neither release nor nightly builds)
+ [20:46:30] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Yes, and the goal would be to get them ready by early December 2017, if not sooner, so we can include them.
+ [20:47:02] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Is uli421 "our" Uli?
+ [20:48:00] <@Ionic> the current release branch of x2goserver is 4.0.1.20 - and since then, other changes accumulated that I'd like to get out as 4.0.1.21 (which would probably also go with mikedep333's GNOME support changes)
+ [20:48:21] <@Ionic> yes, he is
+ [20:48:36]
<@Ionic> note that the autograb feature is currently broken
+ [20:48:43] <@MeinNameIstRetro> I see, so 4.0.1.21 would be using NX-Libs "classic"?
+ [20:48:43] <@Ionic> at least with certain window managers
+ [20:48:49] <@Ionic> yeah
+ [20:49:03] <@MeinNameIstRetro> I think I'm beginning to understand ;)
+ [20:49:14] <@Ionic> but releasing it wouldn't take a lot of effort
+ [20:49:29] <@Ionic> well, maybe on mikedep333's part
+ [20:49:30] <@MeinNameIstRetro> So what would be a realistic time frame to release 4.0.1.21?
+ [20:49:36] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: ?
+ [20:50:22] <@Ionic> there is one bug (the systemd session bug) that I've made a commit for, but I'm not convinced it really fixes the bug *shrug*
+ [20:51:01] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Who reported the bug?
+ [20:51:02] <@Ionic> in any case, it would be stupid to not release the current changes before a big feature release
+ [20:51:31] <@Ionic> AFAIK Orion as a downstream maintainer
+ [20:51:56] <@Ionic> oh no, somebody
else entirely, but he's also been getting bug reports for that
+ [20:51:57] <@Ionic> https://bugs.x2go.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1198
+ [20:52:07] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: I'd say it would make sense to set up those snapshotted repos ASAP. That way you can point testers at a point in time for a test, that doesn't change as you continue working on the code
+ [20:53:21] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: So, set up the snapshot repos, point the bug submitter at the snapshot repo that should contain the fix, have them report back
+ [20:53:27] < mikedep333> WRT 1198, the user said he deleted the line. If that is the default behavior, then deleting it is insufficient.
+ [20:53:46] <@Ionic> there are currently not builds for 4.0.1.x anyway, other than the release builds
+ [20:53:58] < mikedep333> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/logind.conf.html Defaults to "yes"
+ [20:54:04] <@Ionic> deleting what line?
+ [20:54:33] < mikedep333> KillUserProcesses
+ [20:54:34]
<@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: So heuler doesn't point at what approximates 4.0.1.x?
+ [20:54:42] <@Ionic> no
+ [20:54:49] <@Ionic> it points at 4.1.0.0
+ [20:55:18] < mikedep333> Actually, never mind.
+ [20:55:23] < mikedep333> The user said he did set it to "no"
+ [20:55:23] <@Ionic> mikedep333: loginctl enable-linger seems to have worked for him
+ [20:55:43] <@Ionic> we can't change KillUserProcesses directly since that's a global configuration option
+ [20:56:10] <@Ionic> we can only try to disable it on a case-by-case basis via the lingering feature
+ [20:56:30] <@Ionic> but of course, system administrators can disable this very feature, in which case x2go sessions will still be terminated
+ [20:56:40] <@Ionic> but I guess that's their problem then
+ [20:56:57] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: but we could detect if the admin disabled it and warn the user?
+ [20:57:09] < mikedep333> Never mind, I didn't read the entire convo.
+ [20:57:18] < mikedep333> MeinNameIstRetro: We need a warning
system in general.
+ [20:57:33] < mikedep333> For example, if we aren't going to disable GLX for GNOME Flashback, then we need to warn users to disable it.
+ [20:57:37] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Danger, mikedep robinson!
+ [20:57:53] < h1mg> Alex is not online?
+ [20:57:59] < mikedep333> Implementing a warning system means picking a graphical toolkit or utility like zenity though.
+ [20:58:01] <@Ionic> neither is sunweaver
+ [20:58:07] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg: He's on vacation, is he not?
+ [20:58:10] < mikedep333> NX used xdialog IIRC.
+ [20:58:27] <@Ionic> right - and it requires an already running X server
+ [20:58:39] < h1mg> MeinNameIstRetro: yes in france - i forgotten that
+ [20:59:07] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Hmm, I can see sunweaver in the list and he's not tagged as away
+ [20:59:09] <@Ionic> it doesn't make sense to warn in that case since we'd need the functionality before even starting nxagent, which makes it overly complicated to pass around
+ [20:59:18]  *
MeinNameIstRetro pokes sunweaver
+ [20:59:33] <@Ionic> he's been away for 13 hours
+ [20:59:39] <@Ionic> or at least idle
+ [21:00:04] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Is there no way to trigger a client-side popup from within x2goclient?
+ [21:00:07] < h1mg> yes - xmessage would be unsufficiant...
+ [21:00:21] <@Ionic> no, we don't have such a backchannel
+ [21:00:48] < mikedep333> I was thinking of a zenity message or custom message GUI within the session on the server.
+ [21:00:59] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: sunweaver showed me a command that would report X2GoServer's available features. No way of using that?
+ [21:01:15] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: (or something similar, at a similarly early stage)
+ [21:01:22] < h1mg> mikedep333: or an alert using freedesktop.org stuff?
+ [21:01:23] <@Ionic> that's a server-side CLI command that loops through files and prints it out
+ [21:01:49] <@Ionic> guys, we *don't have* that functionality yet
+ [21:02:10] <@Ionic> if you insist on it, the release
won't happen any time soon
+ [21:02:12] < h1mg> Ionic: OK. Stop then.
+ [21:02:32] < h1mg> Ionic: go on
+ [21:02:42] < h1mg> :)
+ [21:02:51] < h1mg> this makes no sense :)
+ [21:03:12] < h1mg> sorry for that - /me should not using the kyeboard while thinking...
+ [21:03:24] <@Ionic> it sounds like a worthwhile addition but requires development
+ [21:04:16] < h1mg> will there be a api/command from mikes artica architecture?
+ [21:04:45] < h1mg> if this all is to far away: Get back on: What needs to be done? 
+ [21:04:46] <@Ionic> my point probably is that I haven't heard of users telling me whether the current fix using loginctl enable-linger actually works
+ [21:05:28] <@Ionic> but since the user reported that setting that mode helped once, I guess that's good enough for me
+ [21:06:07] <@Ionic> arctica is supposed to provide a well-defined protocol (including for stuff like this) - X2Go doesn't have one
+ [21:06:34] <@MeinNameIstRetro> oh Ionic, quick question, do we have an x2go
session log that ends up in the user homedir on the server?
+ [21:06:52] <@Ionic> define "session log"
+ [21:07:22] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: a file that remains in the user's homedir, at least when a session hasn't been terminated cleanly
+ [21:08:49] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Because if we have such a file, or could create one easily, we could drop a notice into that when we're unable to suspend sessions due to a system administrator blocking it.
+ [21:09:25] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: So if a user complains that their sessions are terminating instead of suspending, we could tell them to post the content of that log or search for a certain message there.
+ [21:09:29] <@Ionic> server-side, we have the a.) syslog (verbosity defined in /etc/x2go/x2goserver.conf), b.) a session directory with some log files in ~/.x2go/, but mostly the nxagent log which mostly doesn't contain much information 
+                     - this stuff is being put in /tmp and symlinked to ~/.x2go with
x2goserver 4.1.0.0 though, so it's not really "home dir"-based any longer and c.) the xsession file, which contains information from 
+ [21:09:29] <@Ionic> a desktop session (iff the user started a desktop session)
+ [21:10:04] <@MeinNameIstRetro> so ~/.x2go/ sounds like a place where we could drop a warning notice.
+ [21:10:55] <@Ionic> though depending on the debug level this could be scrubbed by x2gocleansessions for terminated sessions, so the best option would be to log to syslog in x2go-suspend-session
+ [21:11:17] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: but regular users can't read syslog, can they?
+ [21:11:39] <@Ionic> that depends upon the system configuration
+ [21:12:06] <@Ionic> though typically not, no
+ [21:12:21] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: how does the "scrubber" in x2gocleansessions work? Could it be told not to remove the warning message?
+ [21:12:26] < h1mg> same with jouralctl
+ [21:12:43] <@Ionic> so in that case we probably don't have a user-accessible persistent log
storage
+ [21:13:02] < h1mg> but I would search for the issuses in syslog/journalctl
+ [21:13:23] <@MeinNameIstRetro> how about just doing "touch ~/.x2go-session-suspend-unavailable"?
+ [21:14:18] <@Ionic> and how to you tell users to look for that file?
+ [21:14:19] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg: yes, but you are an admin. We have got to consider people that aren't admins, merely users that expect suspend/resume to work $SOMEWHERE because that's what it does at their own installation at home.
+ [21:14:56] <@Ionic> hint: users typically don't read project announcements or wikis
+ [21:14:58] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: You tell them when they come to the ML or #x2go and complain about their suspend/resume not working, plus you put it in the FAQ
+ [21:15:03] < mikedep333> The simplest solution is to call zenity within the x2go session.
+ [21:15:30] <@Ionic> if they complain, we can tell them to check that on case-by-case basis
+ [21:15:35] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: So we'd have to add
a dependency for zenity
+ [21:15:43] < mikedep333> Yes
+ [21:15:59] < mikedep333> And put an option to disable it in /etc
+ [21:16:12] < mikedep333> https://pkgs.org/download/zenity
+ [21:16:14] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: I'd say touch a file in the homedir that doesn't get scrubbed
+ [21:16:20] < mikedep333> zenity seems universal nowadays
+ [21:16:23] < h1mg> Maybe we should spend some time on research: I really don't know if there is a official dbus freedesktop call for the running desktop?
+ [21:16:34] <@Ionic> and even that's not simple, since you need a working nxagent instance for this
+ [21:16:37] < h1mg> zenety would then be a requirement
+ [21:16:42] < mikedep333> yes, I know
+ [21:17:06] < mikedep333> Let me put it this way, it is the simplest for us to implement.
+ [21:17:40] <@MeinNameIstRetro> my gut feeling is that we need a simple, quick way to tell what's going on if someone comes to the ML or the channel and complains about sessions getting terminated.
+ [21:17:40]
<@Ionic> the simpliest thing is to do nothing and handle bug reports by telling them to check if they disabled lingering support
+ [21:18:17] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: "touch ~/.x2go-session-suspend-unavailable" would be how much work?
+ [21:18:35] <@Ionic> well no could do that
+ [21:18:47] <@MeinNameIstRetro> ?
+ [21:20:40] <@Ionic> hm, although I can't find a way to disabling lingering right now
+ [21:21:20] <@Ionic> *disable
+ [21:22:23] <@Ionic> so I guess that makes the problem invalid anyway
+ [21:22:28] < h1mg> just tried: 
+ [21:22:28] < h1mg> # notify-send "test" 
+ [21:22:28] < h1mg> fopr a bubble
+ [21:22:32] <@Ionic> even better
+ [21:23:11] < h1mg> from package: Notify-OSD 
+ [21:23:22] <@Ionic> h1mg: libnotify isn't useful - won't work for non-DE sessions
+ [21:23:35] < h1mg> Ionic: true...
+ [21:23:51] <@Ionic> but I just determined that it's a non-problem and we don't need this functionality anyway, since lingering can't be disabled
+ [21:25:00] < h1mg> ok; so the
result for this topic would be?
+ [21:25:59] <@MeinNameIstRetro> ionic?
+ [21:26:00] <@Ionic> well, I'd like to release 4.0.1.21 at some point (maybe after mikedep333 gets his GNOME work done?) and then 4.1.0.0 will follow at a later point
+ [21:26:27] <@MeinNameIstRetro> okay, mikedep333 - any timeframe, ETA, on your intended fix/commit(s)?
+ [21:26:57] <@Ionic> 4.1.0.0 still needs changes to support the mentioned keyboard cloning, input lock features, but since they aren't part of nx-libs yet we're blocked anyway
+ [21:28:03] <@Ionic> and more importantly, before I can release 4.1.0.0, I need to make sure that an upgrade from 4.0.1.x to 4.1.0.0 works smoothly on all supported distros
+ [21:28:23] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: so it's important that we get 4.0.1.21 out asap
+ [21:28:57] <@Ionic> 4.0.1.21 isn't a big deal, just a bit time-consuming just like every release is
+ [21:29:22] <@Ionic> h1mg: task for you: come up with a new LTS name
+ [21:30:11]  * MeinNameIstRetro pokes
mikedep333 re: ETA
+ [21:30:47] < h1mg> mikedep333: are there "Phoca vitulina" near to your? -> coastline?
+ [21:30:50] < mikedep333> MeinNameIstRetro: Within a month.
+ [21:30:58] < h1mg> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Seehund2cele4.jpg
+ [21:31:40] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: Sounds good. Ionic, should we have a 4.0.1.21 "master bug" as well?
+ [21:31:45] <@Ionic> no
+ [21:32:23] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg, Ionic - I'd veto calling it LTS, I'm OK with calling it ESR though.
+ [21:32:24] <@Ionic> I'm not even sure we need a 4.1.0.0 master bug since it's only three things
+ [21:32:35] <@Ionic> or ESR
+ [21:32:59] <@Ionic> just something we can provide as a "legacy" release
+ [21:34:20] <@MeinNameIstRetro> *test*
+ [21:34:26] <@Ionic> works
+ [21:34:33] <@MeinNameIstRetro> ok, my chat still works, sorry for the test but I had a screen freeze
+ [21:35:09] <@Ionic> any other questions regarding x2goserver?
+ [21:35:20] < h1mg> a generic name, but even specific would be "düne" ->
Germanys only off shore island...
+ [21:35:53] < h1mg> http://osm.org/go/0HODqrg0
+ [21:36:07] <@Ionic> h1mg: we should avoid special characters
+ [21:36:08] <@MeinNameIstRetro> I'd just like to remind you all again that the changes to X2GoServer take priority; if there's still time left, we can tackle X2GoClient.
+ [21:36:16] < h1mg> Ionic: Duene :)
+ [21:36:22] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Dune
+ [21:36:26] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Desert Planet
+ [21:36:41] < h1mg> MeinNameIstRetro: No... not the spice wars!
+ [21:36:57] < h1mg> ok,.. get back... I'll think about it
+ [21:37:23] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg: X2Go vs. Spice would be a theme ...
+ [21:37:33] <@Ionic> the last name we had was baikal
+ [21:37:56] <@Ionic> I don't know the names before that
+ [21:38:00] < mikedep333> lol
+ [21:38:26] < mikedep333> Kessel (Star Wars has the "Spice mines of Kessel")
+ [21:39:22] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: Uh, no, we won't use that. Reason -> IM in a few minutes
+ [21:39:28] <@Ionic> but that doesn't
fit well with the sea-(mammal-)related names we've had in the past, I'm sure h1 can come up with something fitting
+ [21:39:50] < mikedep333> I am just joking.
+ [21:39:53] < h1mg> Trischen, oland, tertius...
+ [21:40:00] < mikedep333> Kessel would be perfect for a SPICE-related project.
+ [21:40:11] < h1mg> all of them sand based islands...
+ [21:40:35] < h1mg> again: we'll find some name!
+ [21:40:45] <@MeinNameIstRetro> okay.
+ [21:40:47] < h1mg> -> task [ ] find name
+ [21:40:58] < h1mg> so... GOGS...
+ [21:41:20] < h1mg> please have a look on that blog post:
+ [21:41:20] < h1mg> https://blog.gitea.io/2016/12/welcome-to-gitea/
+ [21:41:22] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: I would still prefer if we have a master bug for 4.1.0.0. or 5.0.0.0 or whatever we are going to call it. I would really call it 5.x because of the NX-Libs swap.
+ [21:41:33] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg: standby,please
+ [21:41:55] <@Ionic> the nx-libs swap is part of nx-libs and not x2goserver though
+ [21:42:04]
<@MeinNameIstRetro> h1mg: before discussing gogs, the next item on the agenda is an X2GoClient release
+ [21:42:34] < h1mg> MeinNameIstRetro: Sorry... its getting cold in here!
+ [21:42:52] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: yes, but you said 4.1.0.0 is incompatible with our current NX-libs version
+ [21:42:57] <@Ionic> (just a quick reminder that we've already been discussing for more than an hour)
+ [21:43:01] <@Ionic> it's not
+ [21:43:07] <@Ionic> it's compatible to both currently
+ [21:43:19] <@Ionic> 4.0.1.x is incompatible with arctica's version
+ [21:43:34] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: (20:43:51) Mihai Moldovan: arctica's nx-libs is only compatible with 4.1.0.0 so far
+ [21:43:51] <@Ionic> exactly?
+ [21:44:16] <@Ionic> arctica's nx-libs only works with 4.1.0.0, but 4.1.0.0 works with arctica's nx-libs and our legacy nx-libs
+ [21:44:17] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Oh, so 4.1.0.0 will work with NX-Libs classic and NX-Libs Arctica?
+ [21:44:40] <@Ionic> currently yes
+ [21:44:59]
<@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: but the big change is that we support Arctica's NX-Libs with 4.1.0.0, and thus it warrants being called 5.0.0.0 IMHO
+ [21:45:18] <@Ionic> if arctica's nx-libs makes breaking changes that we can't easily wrap around then at some point we'll need to drop legacy nx-libs support
+ [21:45:36] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: That is acceptable, IMHO
+ [21:46:13] <@MeinNameIstRetro> 5.0.0.0 is a "transition release", as in "move to Arctica NX ASAP, let us know if it doesn't work for you"
+ [21:47:22] < mikedep333> Yeah
+ [21:47:26] <@MeinNameIstRetro> anything else regarding the server release or can we move on to the next item, the X2GoClient release?
+ [21:47:27] <@Ionic> when x2goserver went from 3.0 to 4.0, that related to incompatible changes with the client IIRC
+ [21:47:54] <@Ionic> and there's no breakage this time, so I'd opt for 4.1
+ [21:48:13] < mikedep333> Based on what Ionic said, I also suggest 4.1.
+ [21:48:48] <@MeinNameIstRetro> okay. The numbering
is the least important thing, we can discuss that another time.
+ [21:50:16] <@Ionic> we'll have to see if a 4.1.0.0 release is possible by end of december
+ [21:50:35] <@Ionic> no questions from my side
+ [21:50:52] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: EARLY December is the deadline
+ [21:51:02] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Else, no Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
+ [21:51:51] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: this means 1st or 2nd week of December
+ [21:51:54] <@Ionic> again, it requires thoughtful testing of the upgrade path
+ [21:52:04] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: that's why we have to hurry ;)
+ [21:52:33] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Okay. Anything else regarding the Server release?
+ [21:52:40] <@Ionic> I'd rather not have it in ubuntu 18.04 LTS than make a rushed release that breaks on people's machines while upgrading, but it's your call
+ [21:53:23] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Again, with the snapshotted repos we'll be able to provide a safer testing possibility
+ [21:53:46] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: so make them
available early, drop a "prerelease" into a snapshotted repo, have people test
+ [21:54:14] <@Ionic> users can already test today
+ [21:54:44] <@Ionic> they just typically don't
+ [21:54:46] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: We've discussed this at the Gathering before. No, they can't do it as safely and as easily as if we had snapshot repos.
+ [21:55:27] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: You can continue discussing this with me privately later on or some other time - for now, we should let mikedep333 have the stage regarding the Client release
+ [21:55:48] <@Ionic> sure, go on mikedep333 
+ [21:56:13] < mikedep333> Ionic: what?
+ [21:56:38] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: our agenda says:  Upcoming X2GoClient stable release   any questions, vetos, …?   What needs to be done?   Mike#2 will be available for Q&A   
+ [21:57:09] < h1mg> Notebook: [#------] - switching2tablet
+ [21:57:56] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: So I guess you have some changes that are supposed to go into X2GoClient that
aren't in the current stable release yet, and you'd like to release one?
+ [21:58:17] <@Ionic> ah yes, the PATH change
+ [21:59:02] <@Ionic> okay, let's make that quick: I can release a new client version in a few weeks, after making a call for translations and waiting for translations to come in
+ [21:59:06] < mikedep333> Yes, that change
+ [21:59:18] < mikedep333> Ionic: Yes, let's do that please.
+ [21:59:19] <@Ionic> there are currently no known regressions I know about
+ [21:59:25] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: --verbose re: PATH change?
+ [21:59:51] <@Ionic> mikedep333 pushed a change that doesn't override PATH in user sessions
+ [21:59:58] < mikedep333> https://code.x2go.org/gitweb?p=x2goclient.git;a=commit;h=d164a700ba7e243f5038ef925208872f48f9c757
+ [22:00:07] <@Ionic> he and some other users are keen on seeing that in a released version
+ [22:00:29] < mikedep333> Yeah. Basically, another sysadmin here hates telling home / offsite users to install a pre-release.
+ [22:00:47]
<@Ionic> (essentially so that PATH can be modified through, e.g., a user's ~/.bashrc file or similar)
+ [22:01:08] < h1Org2> re...
+ [22:01:14] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: I can totally relate to your sysadmin
+ [22:01:16] <@Ionic> mikedep333: what he doesn't understand is that the pre-release version is just like the release version
+ [22:01:22] <@Ionic> *shrug*
+ [22:01:45] < mikedep333> Another thing is that we would rather install x2goclient from EPEL.
+ [22:01:48] < mikedep333> It saves us time.
+ [22:02:09] <@Ionic> well yeah and EPEL doesn't provide nightly builds, that's understandable
+ [22:02:13] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: oh, so it's not about the Windows Client in particular, but the Client in general.
+ [22:02:20] < mikedep333> Yes.
+ [22:02:20] <@Ionic> yes
+ [22:02:26] <@MeinNameIstRetro> gotcha
+ [22:02:28] < mikedep333> We run all 3 clients platforms here at my new job.
+ [22:02:37] <@Ionic> there are no windows-specific changes in that release
+ [22:02:48]
<@MeinNameIstRetro> wait, that should say <mike number="2">gotcha</mike> ;)
+ [22:02:52] < mikedep333> And we have remote users at universities, homes, etc where we have no control over their clients.
+ [22:03:22] < mikedep333> We can only provide them with instructions and hope they follow them.
+ [22:03:54] <@MeinNameIstRetro> mikedep333: would the "in a few weeks" release date set by Ionic  work for you?
+ [22:04:04] < mikedep333> Yes
+ [22:04:24] <@Ionic> another problem is that I don't know how much time to give translators
+ [22:04:51] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Anything blocking the CfT? If not, send it out today.
+ [22:04:54] <@Ionic> whatever I do, they only (mostly) seem to supply translations at the very end of the deadline - and some even past that
+ [22:05:17] <@Ionic> are 2 weeks enough? or 3 weeks?
+ [22:06:15] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: give them 1 week, poke them after another, then report the ones that still didn't deliver to me, and I shall flog^Wnudge them
gently
+ [22:06:46] <@Ionic> we don't even have a full list of active translators
+ [22:07:15] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: well we have a list of people that provided translations previously, we can ping them
+ [22:07:15] <@Ionic> a week sounds too short
+ [22:07:26] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Of course it is, that's the plan ;)
+ [22:08:20] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: the *real* deadline is 2 weeks, but tell them it is 1 week so they reply faster. Those that read the chat log are the lucky ones ;))
+ [22:08:45] <@Ionic> meh, my gut feeling is that nothing will come in after a week, but okay
+ [22:09:11] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: yes, but we will have them by the second week, that's the idea behind it
+ [22:09:59] <@Ionic> okay, I'll prepare that tomorrow
+ [22:10:35] <@MeinNameIstRetro> okay. Anything else that needs to be said regarding the Client release? Anyone vetoing the release?
+ [22:10:44] <@Ionic> so gogs, if h1 isn't frozen yet
+ [22:11:14]  * MeinNameIstRetro tosses a few
burning logs in h1Org's general direction
+ [22:11:41] <@MeinNameIstRetro> no one else is speaking up, so - next topic: gogs.
+ [22:12:11] <@MeinNameIstRetro> At X2Go: The Gathering 2017, there has been some constructive criticism regarding our current bugtracker.
+ [22:12:28] <@MeinNameIstRetro> The initial idea was a self-hosted gitlab instance, h1Org2 suggested using gogs instead.
+ [22:12:51] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Anyone willing and able to explain the advantages of gogs in a few short sentences?
+ [22:13:16] <@MeinNameIstRetro> IOW, what does gogs do/do better than our current bugtracker?
+ [22:13:58] <@Ionic> gogs is a clone of github written in go, which provides source code and issue report management
+ [22:14:22] <@Ionic> I guess h1 is having connectivity problems currently
+ [22:14:56] <@Ionic> the workflow for bug reports is pretty much like in github, with a user-visible web interface
+ [22:15:29] <@Ionic> h1 has been using that system previously and thus got some
experience with it
+ [22:16:14] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: is it still possible to use E-Mail commands to edit bugs?
+ [22:16:21] <@Ionic> I don't think so
+ [22:16:39] < mikedep333> Fedora developed Pagure and Debian is adopting it, but it isn't as general-purpose as gitlab.
+ [22:16:52] < mikedep333> We are using gitlab happily here at work btw (internally.)
+ [22:17:19] <@Ionic> but gitlab doesn't support that either IIRC
+ [22:18:09] <@Ionic> github itself supports adding comments to bug report via email and provides a mailing list of bug reports and comments per-repository
+ [22:18:21] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Okay, but the only hardcore edit-bugs-by-e-mail users were sunweaver and Alex, I think - and sunweaver has already indicated he's happy with gogs
+ [22:18:22] <@Ionic> I don't know if gitlab and gogs support this
+ [22:18:52] <@Ionic> we've been using the github workflow extensively within arctica
+ [22:19:05] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: do you know how to migrate the bug
database from our debbugs based tracker to gogs?
+ [22:19:26] <@Ionic> that's a problem for sure
+ [22:19:57] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: So I guess we better do not attempt to switch from debbugs to gogs before the new release is done.
+ [22:20:02] <@Ionic> I don't believe there's anything readily available for transfering this data from a debian bug tracker instance to gogs (or to anything else, for that matter)
+ [22:20:52] <@Ionic> the debian BTS stores bug reports in an mbox-like format on the file system with per-issue-report subdirectories
+ [22:21:06] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: h1 contacted me via instant messenger, I've relayed the question to him
+ [22:21:17] <@MeinNameIstRetro> he says there's no way to do it automatically
+ [22:21:28] <@Ionic> well, we can't do it manually
+ [22:22:16] <@Ionic> we've got more than 1200 bug reports, so this must be automated
+ [22:22:58] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Ooooor ... we sunset the debbugs bug tracker, as in, we don't accept new gubs
in it
+ [22:22:59] <@Ionic> even if we don't import closed bug reports, the number is still high
+ [22:23:16] < mikedep333> I am checking  if Pagure accepts email commands to manage bugs.
+ [22:23:17] <@MeinNameIstRetro> *bugs, even
+ [22:24:11] <@Ionic> and then we keep working with two systems simultaneously which is probably even worse
+ [22:24:54] < mikedep333> I am trying to find out if Debian is migrating only source code hosting to pagure, or their bugs tracking also.
+ [22:24:55] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Well, we can still migrate important bugs manually
+ [22:25:14] < mikedep333> MeinNameIstRetro: Good point. Since most bugs do not get addressed quickly.
+ [22:25:37] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1 just suggested we talk to "Mr. FreeRDP" Bernhard Miklauz. He's been using a lot of different bug trackers and has the best overview, in h1' view
+ [22:26:34] <@Ionic> I prefer a full automatic data migration
+ [22:26:55] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: so do I ...
+ [22:27:18] < mikedep333>
looks like debian will keep debbugs along side pagure.
+ [22:27:40] <@Ionic> of course, their database is even bigger
+ [22:28:11] <@Ionic> plus they are used to it (although not totally happy) and it's not like debbugs is deprecated or unmaintained
+ [22:28:12] <@MeinNameIstRetro> h1 believes there is NO tool at all to migrate away from debbugs. No matter what you want to migrate to.
+ [22:28:58] <@Ionic> yes, I know
+ [22:29:06] <@Ionic> I'll have to write one up
+ [22:29:22] <@MeinNameIstRetro> So the question is: Who would be most suited to research if there are migration tools for debbugs -> $something, where $something is a "github-like tool that can be self-hosted"
+ [22:29:53] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: could you ping Bernhard if he has any idea?
+ [22:30:10] <@Ionic> AFAIK there is no tool for migrating debbugs data to anything else
+ [22:30:35] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: as far as YOU and h1 know ... but as far as Bernhard knows?
+ [22:31:58] <@Ionic> debbugs isn't widely
used
+ [22:32:16] <@Ionic> debian, GNU and we are pretty much the only users
+ [22:33:34] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: still,can't hurt to ping him - can you do that?
+ [22:33:45] <@Ionic> I can
+ [22:33:56] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: Then please do so :)
+ [22:34:09] <@MeinNameIstRetro> okay, h1 has signed off for the day
+ [22:34:38] <@MeinNameIstRetro> I think we can all agree that we won't be moving off of debbugs to $SOMETHING_ELSE before the next release.
+ [22:34:48] <@Ionic> certainly not
+ [22:35:14] <@MeinNameIstRetro> that means we have sufficient time to have people chime in/research how a migration might work, and to what target.
+ [22:35:27] <@MeinNameIstRetro> (gogs, self-hosted gitlab, ...)
+ [22:36:23] <@MeinNameIstRetro> So - last topic on the agenda: When shall we meet again? The regular schedule would call for another meeting in 3 months. Do we want to meet again sooner, due to the upcoming release?
+ [22:37:22] <@Ionic> it would probably make sense to schedule a
meeting in mid nov
+ [22:38:06] < rgregory> iconic: i agree.
+ [22:38:14] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: November 9 is our IT-Kongress Booth/Talk, so that one is out.
+ [22:39:03] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: November 16 should work.
+ [22:39:38] <@Ionic> it doesn't really make sense to schedule it now, since we're pretty much alone
+ [22:40:31] <@Ionic> nov 16 sounds sensible, so propose that as the next date and let people chime in
+ [22:40:56] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Ionic: November 9 doesn't work because it's IT-Kongress time, November 23 doesn't work because it's Stuttgart Fair time, so if mid-November is our goal, it's Nov 16 or bust
+ [22:42:13] <@MeinNameIstRetro> We could go for Nov 2 instead.
+ [22:42:35] <@Ionic> we could schedule it earlier as well
+ [22:43:10] <@Ionic> mid nov pretty much is the latest we can do if the 4.1.0.0 deadline is early dec
+ [22:43:25] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Oct 19 or Oct 26 would work too, for a DevMeeting.
+ [22:44:52] <@MeinNameIstRetro> Okay, let's leave
it at that for tonight, I'd say.
  </file>


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